this afternoon, they heard from former special envoy to ukraine ambassador volker and jim morrison, advisor to europe and russia. on c-span we would like to hear from you. here is how to join the conversation. for democrats -- we welcome all others at -- we will take about 20 minutes or so of phone calls to hear from you on this tuesday evening, the first of three hearings we will cover this week on the c-span networks. let's go to the republican line in starlike, wisconsin. caller: thank you for taking my call. i have been watching all day. alln, the witnesses testified that they witnessed no primary, extortion, quid pro quo, all that. and ir thing i noticed, will challenge the democrat callers to flollow -- they all say the president attacks witnesses. billyt as if they took a club and hit him. he is defending himself. i heard the same people say the president attacks people, but they call him a criminal. they say he doesn't care about people, he hates other countries, he is a failure. i wrote them down as i heard them. yourrat callers, don't end call with an attack. you look kind of goof

had a conversation on september 7th according to both ambassador taylor and tim morris and with jim morrison where you told mr morrison that president trump told you that he was not asking for a quid pro quo but that he did insist that president selenski go to a microphone and say that he is opening investigations of biden and 2016 election interference and that president selenski should want to do this himself you don't have any reason to dispute both ambassador taylor's and mr morrison's testimony about that conversation do you know on september 8th you then had a conversation directly with ambassador taylor about this same phone call where ambassador taylor said that you confirmed that you spoke to president trump as he had suggested earlier to you and that president trump was adamant that president selenski himself meaning not the prosecutor general had to quote clear things up and do it in public on quote do you recall do you have any reason to think that ambassador taylor's testimony based on his contemporaneous notes was i don't know if i got that from president trump or i got it from

heard ambassador bolton express to master taylor and national security council senior director jim morrisonhis frustration about mr giuliani's influence with the president making clear there was nothing you could do about it you recommended that mr sankoh his replacement is prosecutor general open a channel with his counterpart attorney general barr in place of the informal channel between mr you're mocking mr giuliani ambassador bolton also expressed frustration about about her silence expansive interpretation of his mandate after president from canceled his visit to warsaw we continued to try to appeal to the president in foreign policy and national security terms to that end and master taylor told me that ambassador bolton recommended that he ambassador taylor send a 1st person cable to secretary peo articulating the importance of the security assistance at a baster taylor's direction i drafted and transmitted the cable on an on about retailer's behalf on august 29th which further attempted to explain the importance of ukraine and the security assistance to us national security by this p

yesterday, we had testimony from jim morrison, who worked on the national security council.t was an interesting testimony spun as boths sides felt like it proved their point because basically previouse had heard testimony from the u.s. diplomat in ukraine which had conflicted and had a more sort of negative portrayal of the interactions between the trump administration and the ukrainians, and he basically the trumput how administration had made clear that the white house visit and security officials were consistent test were contingent on the ukraine investigating. when he came out with that testimony, they attacked him as sort of biased and out to get trump and so forth. now you have this other witness who has been a longtime republican national security staffer and official, and he substantially confirmed bill taylor's testimony. on the key points, he did say sondlandssador gordon to the e.u., has said to the ukrainians that if they want security systems to solidify that, they should investigate the firm that hunter biden works for. that clearlyk hurts trump's case because

jim morrison testified that i think it took him all of doing a google search to find out oh this is the significance of birth as much it involves the bidens. are you saying during all this time up until the call you never made the connection between arisen and the bidens you just thought that the president and rudy giuliani were interested in this one particular ukrainian company again my role mr chairman was just to get the meeting and i understand that but my question is are you saying that for months and months and i was standing everything rudy giuliani was saying on t.v. and all the discussion of the rudy giuliani that you never put together with the bidens i didn't and i wasn't paying attention to what mr giuliani was saying on t.v. we were talking to him directly let me ask ask you this mr volcker testified yesterday to a similar approach in a for lack of a better word. this is what he said in hindsight i now understand that others saw the idea of investigating possible corruption involving the ukrainian company. as equivalent to investigating former vice president biden i saw th

government was during a phone call i had with jim morrison dr hill's recent replacement at the n.s.c. on july 28th mr morrison told me that the call could have been better and that president trump had suggested that presence of linsky or his staff meet with mr giuliani and president and attorney general william barr i did not see any official readout of the call until it was publicly released on september 25th by august i was becoming more concerned and aug 16th i exchanged text messages with ambassador volcker in which i learned that under your mock assume a senior adviser to presidents alinsky had asked that the united states submit an official request for an investigation into baristas alleged violations of ukrainian law if that is what the united states desire a formal u.s. u.s. request to the ukrainians to conduct an investigation based on violations of their own law struck me as improper and i recommended to him ambassador volcker that we stay clear. to find out the legal aspects of the question however i gave him the name of a deputy assistant attorney general whom i thought wo

. >> jim morrison, the lead singer for the doors, a rock music group, is dead.27. >> the early years of the '70s in music was sad because you lose people and you lose the beatles. >> this small gathering is only the beginning. the event is so momentous that historians may one day view it as a landmark in the decline of the british empire. the beatles are breaking up. >> it was like a death for a lot of people. rock and roll as we understood in the 1960s was no longer with us. >> there will never be another beatles, never. ♪ >> i wonder what i'm doing here with no drummers or nothing like that. you might know i lost my old band, or i left it. ♪ imagine there's no heaven it's easy if you try ♪ >> for so long you waited for the next beatles album to see where music was going. and we just hoped the music they came up with individually would be that good. >> i don't no longer have, oh, the beatles need an album. you and paul better go write 20 songs tomorrow kind of thing. i just write when i feel like it. ♪ imagine all the people >> yoko, you have been called the dr

jordan for his part telling cnn he has divulge that has not been -- when some witnesses such as jim morrisony backs up aspects of the defense that hurts the democrats' strategy, lawmakers have pointed that out but have been careful ton divulge too much. they're walking a fine line. pamela brown, cnn, the white house. >> steve v laddic, a cnn contributor. good to see you. what do you make of the strategy getting infollow guidance from a few republican members of congress? >> in one sense i think it's not at all surprising. in another sense, i think it's a pretty telling and sober reflex of where we are. we're supposed to have the separation of powers, not parties. yet here we have members of the house who ar supposed to be playing the role of grand jurors helping the puttative defense. it's not as pamela said, not against the rules as long as they're not divulgetion the contents. but it still doesn't help the appearance that there are two sides here and no one is trying to necessarily convince people on the other side they're right. >> it almost sends a message of a conflict of interest. your

. >> jim morrison, the lead singer for the doors, a rock music group, is dead.was 27. >> the early years of the '70s are sad in music because you lose people, and you lose the beatles. >> this small gathering on saville row is only the beginning. the event so momentous that historians may someday view it as a landmark in the decline of the british empire. the beatles are breaking up. >> it was luke a like a death for a lot of people. rock 'n' roll as we understood it in the '60s was no longer with us. >> being without the beatles -- never. ♪ >> and i wonder what i'm doing here with no drummers and no nothing like that. you might know i lost my old band or i left it. ♪ imagine there's no heaven ♪ it's easy if you try >> for so long, you kind of waited for the next beatles album to see where music was going. and we just hoped that the music they would come up with individually would be that good. >> you know, i no longer, oh, the beatles need an album. you and paul go write 20 songs tomorrow kind of thing. i just write when i feel like it. ♪ imagine all the people

i rode a book and in my book, i had jim morrison in it. that's how i envision it.ub here is instead of them playing themselves or character they played before they died, you're having them come back and actually do a new role. >> neil: wouldn't did make it more appealing to watch if you knew someone who's been gone for a while is resurrected on the screen? >> this is what i meant when i said i'm not quitting just because i die. if something happens to me, gutfeld, i will accept nothing less than a cgi kat timpf or else i will haunt you. >> it's happening right now. with "star wars" and also the irishman. they use the -- and also whitney houston is going on tour next year as a hologram. >> neil: i am a hologram right now. >> you do look thinner, i must say. >> neil: in the meantime, kanye west wing. businessmen, friend of president trump, eyeing it. >> first lady kim kardashian? that would be something. we've seen stranger things happen. >> elva sarandon cost barry goldwater the election. >> ever since we saw trump get elected. nobody said that couldn't happen. i do

next, if our witnesses, including three, jim morrison,>n the hill. thanks. president trump says he did not budge a minute of that hearing today but he says he was told everything presented was thirdhand information. chief white house correspondent john roberts has that part of the story tonight. >> introduced conference late this afternoon with turkish president erewhon, president trump said he knew nothing about the july 26th telephone call ambassador bill taylor recalled in his testimony today. taylor saying and eight overheard the president ask ambassador gordon sondland what the status of the ukraine investigations were. >> i know nothing about that. first time i have heard it. the one thing i've seen that sondland said was that he did speak to me for a brief moment and i said, no quid pro quo under any circumstances. that is true. i have never heard this in any event, it is more secondhand information but have never heard it. >> do you recall any conversations? >> i don't recall, not at all, not even a little bit. the only thing -- and i guess sondland

this afternoon those other 2 witnesses heard volcker the former envoy to the ukraine and to jim jim morrison who is a higher level official on ukraine at the white house they may be able to shed more light but it's notable that republicans are also hopeful that those 2 witnesses may defend the president morrison was one who was also on the call he said that there was nothing improper from what he heard and kurt volker has said that he did not connect the withhold the withholding of the aid to this request for investigations of the question is whether his testimony might evolve or whether he will continue to be the defender of trump that republicans are hoping to count on heidi thank you that is heidi show cost over the natives live in washington d.c. let's bring in kimberly housecoat she's also joining us live from washington and is that an interesting day not just on capitol hill but even at the white house committee given that given so many officials are testifying. yeah and so far the president has been largely quiet on social media he often tweets about this time injecting himself in imp

. >>> jim morrison told me that the call kaucould have been bet and that president trump discuss thatith mr. giuliani. and attorney general william barr. >>> welcome to our msnbc special "trump & ukraine: impeachment crisis." a new focus tonight that upset the entire trump presidency with these hearings continuing next week. barr and the doj are implicated in the plot. way back in april, trump went on fox news suggesting barr could get involved in the ukraine investigation stuff, a bid to try to push a defunked conspiracy theory peddled of course by rudy gull yanny. >> i would imagine he would want to see this. people have been saying this whole -- the concept of ukraine, they have been talking about it actually for a long time. you know that. and i would certainly defer to the attorney general, and we'll see what he says about it. >> the concept of ukraine. well, no, not exactly because he's not just talking about the country. he's talking about getting help with the election and trump got more explicit on the white house lawn. >> i hope he looks at ukraine. i hope he looks at everyt

mike meadows going so far as to say morrison's closed-door testimony should bring the impeachment inquiry to a screeching halt. jimmistic. >> i wish we could get into it. see what he had to say. heather: fox news confirmed morrison said he was not concerned about anything illegal being discussed in the ukraine call. as the impeachment resolution moves forward, jason chaffetz claims democrat pushing the inquiry to distract americans and take the focus off the fisa report. >> the reason the rush to this vote happened when it did is they know the horwitz reporters moments where they wanted to get in front of it so next week, that is just donald trump, he is conducting the department of justice to cover up the impeachment but horwitz is going to cut off the truth and it will be ugly for the democrats. heather: michael horwitz says his report on alleged fisa abuses is near completion. and potential fbi and doj misconduct during the rest investigation is a criminal investigation. a lot still going on. this fox news alert. a 7-year-old girl rushed to the hospital after she is shot in the neck while trick-or-treating. peo

i thought jim jordan had the best yes to him when he said, this is sondland's testimony. ambassador day lower that i told mr. morrisont i conveyed this message on september 1, 2019 in connection with vice president pence's visit to warsaw. jim said we have six people and four conversations. you just tell me this is where you got your clear understanding and you are their star witness. it is outrageous that the democrats would try to eliminate an elected president based on quadruple hearsay. and it wasn't even accurate. taylor even said in his written testimony he read that he thought it was unfair of the president to ask about investigation into corruption. are you kidding me? lou: we are not kidding you and i know you are not kidding us. great minds think alike. the sentence you have chosen is the sentence i'd heard, and it took me back to the 6th grade and my english teacher teaching us to diagram sentences. folks at home. here we go with with congressman gohmert was talking about. reconstructing four different folks within a sentence. see if you can diagram it. here it is. >> you were on the call, were you? you di

the upcoming public impeachment proceedings, outgoing white house adviser tim morrison was testifying behind doors. as jima reported, the white house is viewing it as a win for the day in that he told lawmakers he did not see anything illegal in the president's july 25th call with his ukrainian counterpart. he also corroborated the elements of a quid pro quo, which not surprisingly the white house is not talking about. in his opening statement which cnn just obtained, morrison said he was concerned about three things. first, how it would play out in washington's polarized environment. second, how a leak would affect the bipartisan support of ukrainian partners currently experienced in congress, and third, how it would affect the ukrainian perceptions of the u.s./ukraine relationship. i want to be clear, he said. i was not concerned that anything illegal was discussed. so there is that. at the same time, as we mentioned, he did apparently corroborate the key facts that diplomat william taylor laid out in his testimony, namely, that congressionally approved military aid would not flow to ukraine until the g

i mean, it's fascinating, jim, when you think about it. volker is gone. morrison is gone.now, yovanovitch, a career foreign service officer who knew ukraine and actually was fighting corruption, she is forced out. but, you know, rest safe america gordon sondland is on a plane back to brussels to be the ambassador to the european union tonight. it's amazing. >> it's amazing. and we talked to sources close to the white house trump campaign up on capitol hill and all telling us that inside the white house, inside the campaign, even among some of the gop lawmakers involved in the hearing today, that they were blind-sided by what gordon sondland had to say, and that some were freaking out according to one of the sources we spoke with. and anderson, i think this goes to a very large point, and that is gordon sondland was essentially playing battleship with gop talking points today. he was hitting b 4, a 6 and blowing up things on-site. and the questioning moving forward is what fiona hill has to say tomorrow. they are prepared for her testimony to be difficult for the president

morrison. >> the hill is reporting that congressman jim jordan says gop lawmakers intend to subpoena the whistle-blowere congress. the hill points out that the effort is not likely to bear fruit, as democrats have rejected the idea of outing the anonymous figure, citing safety concerns. and they have veto power over any gop subpoena requests for witness testimony. >>> we're getting a preview of that book from the anonymous writer who claims to be a senior trump administration official, who was part of the resistance on the inside. according to excerpts obtained by the rachel maddow show, the writer says the president's decision-making abilities are getting worse with time. and that many top administration officials have pre-written resignation letters on the ready to submit. here's another excerpt obtained by the "washington post," quote, this, it is like showing up at the nursing home at daybreak to find your elderly uncle running pantless across the courtyard, and cursing loudly about the cafeteria food as worried attendants try to catch him. you're stunned. you're amused. you're embarrassed. all at

morrison in his deposition. why is it you don't have the opening statements? he was the boss on the substance that jim jordan pointed out. the ukraine aid was not even known to be held up. did not say anything to us until just before it was released. and then it was released. and as jim jordan pointed out, guess what ukraine had to do to get that release? nothing. adam schiff needs to release all the transcripts right now. [applause] mr. zeldin: on behalf of our constituents and on behalf of the american public, everyone who is pissed about being misled of adam schiff hiding in the capitol basement using you, release the darn transcripts and let's have a conversation about substance. i tell you what. you lost the conversation about process. you are losing the conversation about process. bring it on about substance, because our president was right in being concerned about corruption. our president was right in looking into interference in the 2016 election and the president is right to be concerned about a corrupt foreign company run by a corrupt ukranian oligarch. and no experience for 50,000 a onth a

it's a huge week really, jim, on capitol hill as democrats and republicans hear from eight witnesses this week, including tim morrison, the former nsc official who, of course, came to understand, according to closed door deposition transcripts, that gordon sondland was speaking directly with president donald trump about pushing the ukrainians to investigate the president's political rivals. according to morrison's deposition, he told congressional investigators that the president and sondland spoke five times between july 25th, the date of that call between trump and zelensky, and september 11th bwhens here in thely $400 million in u.s. military add was released. everything building to wednesday where he will hear from eu ambassador gordon sondland. expect republicans and democrats to have very tight questions for him, especially democrats, who are going to be pushing him on what exactly he was telling the president, what were the conversations exactly like. a huge week moving forward. we'll also hear from jennifer williams and nsc aide to mike pence, the vice president, and also on the july 25th phone call and had c

she answered no and goes on to through some of that and it is turned over to jim jordan and congressman jordan said mr. morrison said this, i had concerns about his judgment among the discussions i had with dr. hill and the transition with our team. it's strengths and weaknesses aced concerns about alexes and should have said about his judgment. when morrison was asked by mr. castor did anyone bring concerns replied . morrison yes. they thought he was a leaker all about this was a concern. your boss had concerns about your lobbyinger and your colleagues that they were times you leaked information. colonel. ls him and he reads an e.r.o. that was so what growing. . he later says, i can't say what mr.son, why mr. morrison questioned my -- what mr. morrison, why mr. morrison questioned my judgment. colonel, it's interesting, we had people in the basement of the capitol over the last couple of weeks, but only three of the individuals we deposed were on the now-somewhat famous july 24 or 25 phone call between president trump and president zelensky. there was you, the individual sitting beside you, and there were of c

jim, let me tee up some sound for you that seemed to play pretty relevant today with mr. morrison.o here is morrison talking about a call or an experience with ambassador sondland who is testifying tomorrow and it shows why there is so much heat on ambassador sondland. >> did you tell ambassador bolton about this conversation as well in. >> i've reached out to him as well and requested him availability for a secure phone call. >> and what was his response when you explained to him what ambassador sondland had said? >> tell the lawyers. >> did you go tell the lawyers? >> when i returned to the states, yes. >> did he explain to you why he wanted you to tell the lawyers? >> he did not. >> now, this shows one thing right away, jim, boy, do we need bolton. i don't want to hear what this guy was told. i want to know why bolton felt it that way, why he felt the need that this needed to be reported. sondland on a phone call saying if you want this aid, you want to get the meeting, you need to give us the announcement on the investigations significance? >> ambassador bolton knew it was inap

. >> jim, let me team up sound for you that seemed to play relevantly today with mr. morrison.e is morrison talking about a call or an experience with ambassador sondland who is of course testifying tomorrow and it shows just why there's so much heat on ambassador sondland. >> did you tell ambassador bolton about this conversation as well? >> i reached out to him as well and requested his availability for secure phone call. >> and what was his response when you explained to him what ambassador sondland had said? tell the lawyers. did you go tell the lawyers? >> when i returned to the states, yes. >> did he explain why he wanted you to tell the lawyers? >> he did not. >> this shows one thing right away, jim. boy do we need bolton because i don't want to hear why this guy was told -- i want to know why bolton saw it that way, why he felt the need that this needs to be reported and what was this? this was sondland saying on a phone call that mr. morrison heard if you want this aid, if you want to get the meeting, you need to give us the announcement on the investigations. signific

deflated by republican jim jordan declaring the traffic on this with 6 different people having 4 different conversations was simply hard to follow. >> ambassador a mister morrison recalled ambassador taylor that i conveyed this message on september 1, 2019, in connection with mike pence's visit to warsaw and a meeting with volodymyr zelinsky. 6 conversations in one sentence and this is where you got your clear understanding. i've seen church prayer chains that are easier to understand than this. >> they are relying on second and third hand accounts in some cases but the president is the one not letting firsthand witnesses like mick mulvaney testified. >> jillian is over there, something about that for you? >> something that happened on the hill, still buzzing about tonight and will continue to do for the weeks ahead is the thread that ran throughout the hearing today, an argument between democrats and republicans about whether the second and third hand witness accounts really constitute evidence that can or should be used to indict a sitting president. republicans obviously say no. democrats are going full steam ahead with yes, this is an argument that has been

jim jordan cut through the heart of a narrative spun by ambassador bill taylor's claim that he had a supposedly clear understanding of a so-called quid pro quo. >> ambassador taylor rawlts that mr. morrisonold mr. taylor that i told will morrison that it conveyed this message in' presidentr vice president pence's visit to kiev. and this is where you tell me you got your clear understanding. lou: the media tried to change the he script with more hearsay saying a second american official overheard a phone call about investigations about president trump and ambassador sondland. an anonymous person was briefed on what that official says he or she overheard. when it comes to naming an impeachable offense committed by the president. the radical dimms are left with absolutely nothing. as congressman jordan pointed out yesterday, these were their star witnesses. here is congressman john vapt cliff. >> in this impeachment hearing today where we impeach presidents for treason or bribery or high crimes. where is the impeachable offense in that call? are either of you here to assert there was an impeachable oh nerns that call. show it out. anyone? lou: president trump having some fun with that line

jim jordan also optimistic. >> i wish we could get into it. it was positive in so many ways, giving -- getting to see what he had to say. jillian: fox news confirmed morrisonhe wasn't concerned about anything illegal being discussed in the ukraine call. now that the impeachment inquiries formalized the pressure is on democrats to deliver. rob: market live in, host of life, liberty and live in so there's nothing illegal about the president's actions. >> what exactly is the impeachable issue? the president has every right to temporarily withhold military aid for any reason he wants to and it has been done before by other presidents. the phone call itself, we have a phone call itself, the president declassified it. you can't find a single tie between military aid and request for the 2016 investigation and even if you do it is perfectly legal. you can't as the ukrainian government to assist you in a investigation being led by your attorney general? of course you can. even though it might get to the bottom of the hillary campaign and the dnc that worked with ukraine in the obama administration the president of the united states is free to do that. rob: even if

and just hours ago, congressman jim jordan of ohio totally exposed the sham hearing and today's star witness. take a look at this. >> ambassador taylor, i told mr. morrison i conveyed to mr. yarmok on september 1st, 2019 with the meeting. we got six people with four conversations in one sentence and you told me this is where you got your clear understanding. even though you had three opportunities with the president zelensky to tell you, you know what, we will do these investigations to get the aid. i didn't tell you three different times. never makes an announcement, never tweets about it or does a cnn interview. you didn't listen on president trump's call, president zelensky's call? >> i did not. >> you never talked with mulvaney? >> you never met the president and three meetings that didn't come up. >> two of those they never heard of it as far as i know. >> you are there star witness. you are their first witness. you are the guy, based on this. i mean, i've seen them i've seen church prayer chains easier to understand than this. >> sean: taylor relied on hearsay and conjecture, at least 17 times during his testimony. that is not evidence. you talk ab

on this sound from jim jordan and talking to and questioning lieutenant colonel vindman this morning because we are going to see a little bit more about this. this mention tim morrison who was about to testify, let's watch. >> your boss had concerns about your judgment, your colleagues had concerns about your judgment, and your colleagues felt that there were times when you leaked information. any idea why they have those impressions, colonel vindman? >> yes, i guess i will start by reading dr. hill's own words as she attested to in my last evaluation that was dated the middle of july right before she left. alex is a top 1% military officer and the best army officer i ever worked with in my 15 years of government service. he is brilliant, unflappable, and excellent judgment. exemplary during numerous visits, so forth and so on, but i think you get the idea. i can't say why mr. morrison west in my judgment. we had only recently started working together. he wasn't there very long, and we were just trying to figure out a relationship. may be different culture, military culture. >> you never leaked information? >> i never did, never worried. that is preposterous that i

jim jordan declaring that some of the text traffic on this with six different people having four different conversations that were simply hard to follow. watch. >> let me read it one more time. i told mr. morrison that i conveyed this message to mr. yermak in connection with vice president pence is a connection to warsaw and meeting with president zelensky. we have six people having four conversations in one sentence and you tell me this is where you got your clear understanding? i've seen church proteins that were easier to understand than this. >> they are relying on second and third hand accounts in some cases because of presence is the one not letting first-hand witnesses come up and testify. >> shannon: it's stick around because i want to get more from you but let's also sneak in gillian turner over there on the hill. >> something that sources here on the hill are buzzing about tonight and will continue to do it for the ahead is the thread that ran throughout the hearing. that's between democrats and republicans about whether the second and third hand witness accounts really constitute evidence that can or should be used. republicans obviously say no. democrats are going full stream that t

morrison were meant to ex-kul patripate, and there' corroboration between the two, and whether that happened, whether it was serious enough to be impeachable. remarkable distance to move in a short time. >> to jim's point, politically, we have seen people like senator rob portman already stipulate that this happened, that it was bad, but politically the republicans are saying not impeachable. all of this testimony, even witnesses the republicans had hoped to either undermine or would be favorable, not on the factors. >> the president has been shall we say relatively restrained today, although in the photo op earlier was speaking ill of the entire process as he always does. but his aides and his campaign, the white house, they have been sending out very negative messages about lieutenant colonel vindman. >> they tried to use something morrison said behind closed doors when he said there were people that questioned vindman's judgment at nsc, specifically fiona hill that we'll hear from thursday. i his opening statement, i think he realized how much play that has got. he said he wasn't here to criticize his colleagues. saw vindman prepared to address it as he was there to testify earlier. he brought

jim jordan. let me play it. >> the white house -- >> not second-hand. sondland talked to yarmak and they have a conversation, then he talks to morrison, morrison talks toky and nothing happens there. >> he's saying none of these witnesses have first-hand information. >> thank you for that. paul and i were talking about that in the green room. it is the biggest, bogus claim that there is no proof to the president's involvement. there are exceptions to the hearsay rule. there are more situations that play out every day in courtrooms, criminal, civil. when my wife tells me that my dogs are doing something or my dog is doing something, i don't have direct information but i rely on it. it's the way we operate as a society. this is bogus. >> i think to bring it to the legal framework, there's a clear exception to the hearsay rule that says the statements and furtherance of a plan, criminal plan, but here a plan to withhold evidence are admissible as evidence of the existence of the plan. i have clients who are in jail today based upon that very sort of testimony. to say that it is inadmissible is wrong. to say you don't want to believe it, that's what jim jo

jim jordan slamming their star witness. >> i'm going to read it one more time. i told mr. morrisonice president pence's visit to warsaw and a meeting with president zelensky. we have six people having four conversations in one sentence and you told me this is where i get my clear understanding and you are the star witness. you are the first witness. you are the guide based on this, based on -- i mean, i've seen >> jesse: a lot of frustration with some of the republicans is if you are going to have a legitimate hearing, it's not a court of law. but it all seems to be secondhand and hearsay. one guy even overheard a phone call the president was having. you are going to impeach someone on that? >> juan: as dana pointed out, we got more witnesses to come. in some ways, the first hour today when you saw bill taylor up there, in west point and all the experience he had, if you watched an hour this morning, if you walked by you said, that's pretty impressive. i will say this for jim jordan. jim jordan was put on the committee specifically for this purpose and i think he did a good job bec