laura duff and jim o'donnell are church friends. did you ever think, my goodness, this young man is a killer? no. debbie? mm-mm. not for a second. the very notion that somebody could consider jarod capable of this was beyond my belief. there's just simply no way i could apply my brain to that. dennis murphy: the support wasn't just moral. the church friends offered to help any way they could. we had two or three people come up and says, what can we do? i'm like, well, pray. i don't-- but one of them said, well, come on. there's something we could do. what about all that paperwork? couldn't you use help with that? and i'm like, that would be wonderful. dennis murphy: that paperwork was the case against jarod-- mounds of documents, police reports, audio and video recordings. and to mount a defense, they would need to understand it. my lawyer was very good, but he has a small practice, just him and his wife. and so as far as legwork, there's not 100 paralegals going around to do legal research for him. dennis murphy: jarod and katie tr

as well as listening to people like gus o'donnell, mark carney, jim o'neill, who are all saying we needt more to grow our economy and seize the huge opportunities in digital, tech, life sciences, clean energy. but we will only be able to do that if we change the way we measure debt. the credibility of these rules is really important for everybody. for the public, for the markets. some might see this as a sneaky shuffle when you are in a tight bind fiscally, or are you embracing the idea that this is meant to, for example, maintain investment levels at 2.5%? first of all, the stability rule is the one that really binds, and it's hard to meet. that will require difficult decisions on spending, welfare and taxation. but there is a choice about whether we want to continue on this path of decline. the plans i have inherited from the conservatives see public sector net investment decline quite rapidly as a share of our economy. if we continued on that path, we would miss out on other opportunities, and other countries would seize them. i don't want those jobs and investments going to other co

free up more money to invest in capital, as well as listening to people like gus o'donnell, mark carney, andy haldane and jimall saying we need to invest more to grow our economy and seize the huge opportunities there are in digital, in tech, in life sciences, in clean energy, but will only be able to do that if we change the way that we measure debt. so the credibility of these rules is really important for everybody, for the public, for the markets. some might see this as a slightly sneaky shuffle when you're in a bit of a tight bind fiscally. so the credibility of these rules is really important for everybody, for the public, for the markets. some might see this as a slightly sneaky shuffle when you're in a bit of a tight bind fiscally. or are you embracing the idea that this is meant to, for example, maintain investment levels at 2.5%? is that what you're trying to do? the first rule, the stability rule, is the one that really binds and is hard to meet. and that will require difficult decisions on spending, welfare and taxation. but there's a choice then, about whether we want to continue on this path of

free up more money to invest in capital, as well as listening to people like gus o'donnell, mark carney, andy haldane and jimo are all saying that we need to invest more to grow our economy and sees the huge opportunities there are in digital, in tech, in life sciences, in clean energy, but we'll only be able to do that if we change the way that we measure debt. rachel reeves, talking about changing the way we measure debt. what exactly does that mean? i have been talking to our chief political correspondent henry zeffman and asked him to explain more about the significance of what rachel reeves has been saying. the government will retain rules about essentially reducing debt and not using borrowing to fund day—to—day spending. but what exactly they mean by debt will change. now, i'm not sure this actually is going to mean translating it into basic english, but what they are going to do is incorporate more financial assets into that measure of debt. so they're going to include the student loan book, they're going to include share stakes in companies, and ultimately what this all tells you, what this measure