as an aside, i'll get back to this, jim st. clair at one session of the committee when he was there he said to me you know, you and i are learning obsolete skills. i said what are you talking about? i'm learning how to defend a president and you're learning how to prosecute a president and neither one of us will have much use of this in private practice. that may be true. i started laughing. in any event, i figure out how to try this. i'm sitting in my office and i remember i think it was dorr who said bernie, the president is about to speak, all sorts of rumors, like he might resign, said why don't you come. we set up a television in the common room and why don't you come. i said no, i don't want to watch. he's not going to resign. nothing is going to happen. it's going to be another rationalization. i got to work, figure out. i guess i was a little crazed. when is the trial, are they going to take place 18 month or so. got to be fast and i got to figure out what are we going to do. in my mind because we didn't have a lot of trial l

st. clair, since you were his partner later? >> later. jim came in, and, you know, even at that point, he was a coony, old trial lawyer and my one abiding memory of him is i was presenting the case for the committee on an article based on impoundment of funds. failure to spend funds that had been appropriated. i think a lot of them were clean air act. clean water act. so i said, well, here's the case for impoundment and then i said here's the arguments the other way. and bob mcclure from illinois, said, well, are there any other possible defenses that the president should raise? this was right in the thick of all the fight over the documents and the supreme court and whether the president could whoeld documents. and i said, yes, based on case a, b, and c, i said very proudly, the president could stand upon the ground and the defense of sovereign immunity. and st. clair, seated three feet to my right and he just collapsed laughing. because that was obviously such bad politics at the time. >> tell us a bit about the effect that bert jenner had