jim stillwell, department of public health. so for the alcohol and drug programs, really, the primary mechanism is reduction in drug and alcohol use. the methods are the california out come measurement survey, and it's a fairly intricate system because the outcomes are compared also to the person's health state and their drug use, alcohol use at the beginning of the episode, and it looks at the change for that population. it's normed against statewide populations and also normed against city populations, so it's a fairly elaborate system without a single benchmark, but it is validated statewide at multiple places. >> president cohen: okay. thank you. >> in addition, we track 20 other variables, like housing status, employment status, family education, legal, things like that, but we have a pretty clear idea of program success. >> president cohen: well, i know you have a clear idea. i was looking for a better clear idea. i hope that you as a manager have an idea. >> well, yes. >> president cohen: the only thing -- i hear all the