i will ask jim wolfensohn to give us one more antidote. it is fabulous listen to your stories. do you have one? >> i think you should talk to jim yong kim, the current president. do you have anything that you would like to bring to our attention? [laughter] >> there is no particular story. that story of when i entered, it is an ongoing issue. the other piece of that story is that happens to be a critical development project. canceling it was difficult. these are the things that we have to balance. i had to cancel something that would have had a huge development impact. that is the red line that you have to draw. no matter how important a development impact might be, you have to be ready to cancel something if you see carrots and corruption. it was a few people, a few people who had done this. now, we hope it goes forward. it is unclear whether it will go forward. that is the difficulty of this job. you've to be ready to make that kind of decision. >> paul volcker, you seem to want to say something. >> china in particular has been resistant to dealing with corruption by their own

i will ask jim wolfensohn to give us one more antidote. -- anecdote. it is fabulous listening to your stories. you have one? >> i think you should talk to jim yong kim, the current president. do you have anything that you would like to bring to our attention? [laughter] >> there is no particular story. that story of when i entered, it is an ongoing issue. the other piece of that story is that happens to be a critical development project. canceling it was difficult. these are the things that we have to balance. i had to cancel something that would have had a huge development impact. that is the red line that you have to draw. no matter how important a development impact might be, you have to be ready to cancel something if you see carrots and corruption. it was a few people, a few people who had done this. now, we hope it goes forward. it is unclear whether it will go forward. that is the difficulty of this job. you've to be ready to make that kind of decision. >> mr. vogel, your closing thoughts? >> absolutely. what he just said, he has got a long ways

i will ask poll vinson -- jim wolfensohn to give us one more antidote. to yourbulous listen stories. you have one? should talk to jim yong kim, the current president. do you have anything that you would like to bring to our attention? [laughter] >> there is no particular story. entered, itf when i is an ongoing issue. the other piece of that story is that happens to be a critical development project. this was -- canceling was difficult. -- canceling it was difficult. these are the things that we have to balance. i had to cancel something that would have had a huge development impact. that is the red line that you have to draw. no matter how important a development impact might be, you have to be ready to cancel something if you see carrots and -- corruption. it was a few people, a few people who had done this. now, we hope it goes forward. it is unclear whether it will go forward. as the difficulty of this job. -- that is the difficulty of this job. you've to be ready to make that kind of decision. mueller, -- paul volcker, you seem to want to say somethi

him directly, there is corruption in this country and you need to face it, and he said to jim, " mr. wolfensohnt you call corruption, we call family values." [laughter] >> who was that person? [laughter] >> it's not my story. [laughter] >> mr. wolfensohn? >> i can't remember, actually. >> oh. [laughter] >> all right, so this really illustrates, even when you are very ballsy and upfront and you call people out, it doesn't necessarily work. let's go back to transparency international, madam labelle. i know that there are some areas that are working that are perhaps not so dramatic as mr. wolfensohn's approach. can you share them with us? >> you have to -- let me just look at 2 or 3 countries. there could be many more. but there are some common things that happen happening in those countries. whether you are looking at botswana, that has had very interesting leaders from the day that they got independence. and to this day, in our corruption perception index, but juana is always in the top 20 out of 175, -- botswana is always in the top 20 of 175, 180. people in the country as well as people workin

wolfensohn to give us one more antidote. from his years of dealing with corruption. it is fabulous listening to your stories. you have one? >> i think you should talk to jim yong kim, the current president. he knows exactly what is going on now. do you have anything that you would like to bring to our attention? [laughter] >> there is no particular story. that story of when i entered, it is an ongoing issue. the other piece of that story is that happens to be a critical development project. canceling it was difficult. [indiscernible] these are the things that we have to balance. i had to cancel something that would have had a huge development impact. that is the red line that you have to draw. no matter how important a development impact might be, you have to be ready to cancel something if you see carrots and corruption. it was a few people, a few people who had done this. now, we hope it goes forward. it is unclear whether it will go forward. that is the difficulty of this job. you've to be ready to make that you know it well. kind of decision. >> your closing thoughts? >> absolutely. as he said, a long way to go. china in particular has been resistant