jimmy mcgovern�*s hillsborough was another one as well, which resonated with the public, these dramasey're underpinned byjournalism. what the drama did was hit the emotional resonance of the characters lives in a way that hasn't been seen byjournalism because there was literally nothing to film when i got hold of this story first, there was literally people who had experiences that you could interview them about and buildings that you could film. there was nothing that actually spoke in pictures of what had happened to them. so that's why the drama landed, because it's suddenly brought this to life in a way that there wasn't any documentary footage about what was going on in these people's lives before. one of the interesting things is the anger about the behaviour of people in senior positions at the post office and around them. and it's interesting, there were very few interviews over the years with anyone from the post office about the horizon it concerns as the story did begin to gather more and more coverage. is that a failure of news media, that there wasn't more work done? that

so, if you back timeu see you gt caucuses pretty early and george mcgovern in 1972 and jimmy carter famouslyn by starting so early. that's, of course, what they did. the main thio if it hurts the feelings of iowa ns is that iowa's not first because it is important. it's important because it first. in any nomination process, whichever state goes first has extra importance simply because of being first. caucuses work versus primaries? >> the primary, in iowa, for example, oror 14 hour window where you can go at a time at your convenience and show up at voting bootha and leave. caucuses a very different. they are always set for 7:00 on a monday night in an iowa winter, andter big time right n. and you have to hope that the babysitter shows up, you have to hope the car starts and hope you have not taken ill, and especially have to hope there is not a blizzard, which is what we have. people show up. again, caucus comes from the native american word, meeting a gathering or meeting. and caucuses do two things, they preexist the presidential elements. caucuses have been around since statehood, they

cathy come home by ken loach, of course, is a famous example. jimmy mcgovern's hillsborough was anotherout the horizon it concerns as the story did begin to gather more and more coverage. is that a failure of news media, that there wasn't more work done? that is an absolute failure ofjournalism. and i've said that on the record. we consistently tried to get an interview with paula vennells, and she was — don't forget, the post office is 100% owned by the government — and yet she would not make herself available for interview to talk about any aspect of the scandal. and i don't know why more people weren't asking her that question. if serious news editors from large news organisations had gone to the government and said, "why won't the chief executive the post office give an interview to anyone"? then things might have happened. and i think actually that is one finger that you can point atjournalism. why weren't big news organisations piling in there at the very highest level and saying, "it is unacceptable that this person, this the leader of this organisation who is paid by the taxpaye

i think of hillsborough and jimmy mcgovern's hillsborough, bringing that to the screen helped those peoplee papers, questions about drama is expensive to produce for television. saying there will not necessarily be money in the future to make these dramas, however much impact they have. what do you think? are they safe now because of may be the impact of mr bates and the post office? i because of may be the impact of mr bates and the post office?- bates and the post office? i would ho -e there bates and the post office? i would hope there would _ bates and the post office? i would hope there would always _ bates and the post office? i would hope there would always be - bates and the post office? i would hope there would always be room | bates and the post office? i would i hope there would always be room for drama. my goodness. obviously, i have a vested interest!— drama. my goodness. obviously, i have a vested interest! please keep makint have a vested interest! please keep making them- _ have a vested interest! please keep making them. do _ have a vested interest! please keep making them

so, if you back time from those, you see you got to startucuses e mcgovern in 1972 and jimmy carter famouslyay to get ourselves known by starting so early. that's, of course, what they did. thing to remember, even if it hurts the feelings of iowa ns is that iowa's not first important. it's important because it is first. in any nomination process, rbwhveimportance simply because of being first. greta: how do caucuses work versus primaries? >> the primary, in iowa, r a ge, have a 13 or 14 hour window where you can go at a time at your convenience and show up at voting bootha and leave. caucuses a very different. they are always set for 7:00 on a monday night in an iowaand bog that winter big time right now. and you have to hope that the babysitter shows up, you have to hope the car starts and hope you have not taken ill, and especially have to hope there is not a blizzard, which is what we have. people show up. again, caucus comes from the native american word, meeting a gathering or mting. and caucuses do two preexist the presidential elements. caucuses have been around since statehood, they

jimmy carter, barack obama and george w. bush have won a contested caucus in iowa and then become president. what iowa does introduces surprises. it has always been that way, in 1972 george mcgovern was a longshot editor used his second place finish in iowa propel him to the democratic nomination in 1980 ronald reagan was considered such a lock skipped last debate, the wonder of the republican caucus that year turned out to be george w. bush, landing him on the ticket as vice president. early front runner to third place in iowa prompted this infamous scream in des moines right after he lost the caucuses, he was trying to keep his disappointed supporters fired up.>> were going to washington dc to take back the white house. [ screaming ] [ laughter ] >> the flipside was jimmy carter, yet you were votes than people chose uncommitted but he used iowa as his mccarter clearly the winner, well, come the first visited iowa one year ago few people heard of that in 2000 -- in 2008, obama mania started with this win in iowa. >> a crushing crowd at this annual iowa state friday, rockstar treatment for a 45- year-old senator in office just two years, 97 of 100 in senate yorty. >> love all the

jimmy carter, barack obama, and george w. bush, have won a contested caucus in iowa and then become president. what iowa does often produce is surprises. it has always been that way. in 1972, george mcgovernor from south dakota who used his second place finish in iowa to propel him to the democratic nomination. in 1980, ronald reagan was considered such a lock that he skipped the last debate. the winner of the republican caucus that year turned out to be george h.w. bush, getting him enough attention to land him a spot on the ticket as vice president. in 2004, howard dean's fall from early front runner to third place prompted this infamous scream in des moines right after he lost the caucuses. he was trying to keep his disappointed supporters fired up. >> we're going to washington, d.c. to take back the white house! >> the flip side of that story would be jimmy carter, who actually got fewer votes than people who chose uncommitted, but he used iowa as a spring board. >> jimmy carter, clearly the winner, scored well, came from nowhere. >> when carter first visited iowa one year ago, few people had even heard of him. >> then in 2008, the obama mania started, with this win in iowa. >> a crus