but it was endorsed the time by jimmy swaggart and who my mom was like really into mean she's definitely not now but she was so he ended up kind of playing a role and he's kind of and he was really against mental health treatment like really violently against that. and he had a lot of mental health issues himself and he stood by that and was not treated. so at least as far we publicly know. so and but he's kind of hilarious also i made use of like with him combing his blond hair in front of his face is disguise and all these like seedy motels and like these interviews with the l.a. times, the l.a. times, like, made this big drama him. and we're always like having people, like, in his church service and write down his sermons and everything. so this is that a lot of fun. and then robert crumb, my brother's favorite writer, he's a comic book artist, so he ended up coming in. and then i had one that was kind of a failed prodigal, which was which was rembrandt, which is i had which just as you can tell, does not fit with the rest of them. but but i brought him in only because of his like rea

host: jimmy swaggart. guest: jimmy swaggart. he was an incredible orator.bly's oh, god pastor. host: still going. guest: yes, with his son donnie. he started off as a prosperity preacher, decided he felt it wasn't true anymore, which shows you the internal wrangling around pentecostalism and whether it was the same thing as prosperity gospel. which it isn't. there was internal division. he was by the time of his own , fall, involved in a very heated series of rivalries with other preachers. host: didn't he out another preacher for being with a prostitute? guest: you know, there is an amazing book about ptl that just came out, by a professor, and it shows you the underbelly of that story in which so many of them were trying to sabotage the other. and then they all went down. host: he went down because the people he was against outed him. and he went on over several years to be with prostitutes. guest: yes, it ended up being mutual damnation. host: why do people go back to people like this? guest: you can see in the theology. christianity has its own theology