turned on a -- turn down a scholarship at the university of texas in order to go on the road with jimmy vaughnas offered a scholarship to the ut for music, and i debated it. i had long talks with my parents and grandparents, telling me i ought to -- charlie: go to college. gary: yeah, of course. i just felt for me i knew i wanted to be a musician and be involved in it somehow, but i kind of wanted to find out a way for better or worse -- i don't like taking instruction very well. you know, i am kind of a terrible student. i kind of feel like my gut feeling is i know where to go, i am confident. charlie: but how did you know you wanted to be a musician? gary: i saw michael jackson on stage, i was five years old in denver. my parents took me to the show, it was a complete surprise. i just fell in love with the energy. charlie: and the dance and the music. gary: we had music growing up in the house, and i was always a kid right next to the speaker. ♪ >> ♪ don't stop baby all night long don't stop til the break of dawn keep coming home ♪ charlie: it wasn't easy for you. i mean, you had to struggle