joan wallace and sarah short is a visiting scholar at uc berkeley. she was held prisoner in iran for 410 days. i want to get to you in a moment, sarah. joan, what should be united states policy when someone there in the islamic state or anywhere in the east say we want x number of millions of dollars for the safe release of someone. >> i think we need to stick with the policy we have around ransom. i think isis is stitting on $125 million because they were able to get european countries to pay the ransom. the "new york times" did a fabulous investigation looking at the way al qaeda raised tens of millions from european nations and concluded that kidnapping europeans has become the primary business model for al qaeda. it goes into financing the operations that we are trying to fight. so my heart goes out to the families of these people who have been murdered and my heart goes out to sarah, too, for what she endured and she may have a different point of view. i thipg what we do if we cave on this is create a bigger market for hostage taking. >> what hap