joining me now, joanne freeman from yale university. arlie hawksfield for the uc berkeley sociology department and the author of "being strangers in their own land." i'm so happy to have you both here for this conversation. you are two of my favorite people who study this issue. arlie, the reason i wanted to talk to you, you lived this world before the moment we were in. you went down to louisiana and you spent time amongst people who held views that were very foreign to those that you existed around. so you learned a little bit about this. what have you learned and written about that could inform us in this moment of deep political disagreement? >> well, you know, i've learned that, first of all, you need a goal to try and talk across the way. and i found that people on the right, that tea party people that became enthusiasts for donald trump already in -- before he was elected. that they want to talk across -- but what's missing is we don't have the vehicles. we used to have the compulsory draft and unions that mixed and matched us ac

i feel like a lot of people dueled, i think you have looked in to it and read about it in joanne freeman's book, for example, you can find out about the duel ing culture. and people have families and up bringing and all of the things that people have. i am interested in what made him the dynamic force that was not like everyone else was if you know what i mean. i am looking specifically at what i call, and i'm not alone in calling it this, the great creative phenom enon that occurred. 1782-1795. you can date it differently, i will just pick that period and say, something happened there, where of course, with all of the things that went in to his life before he arrived in the continental congress. he brought all that baggage and all that inspiration and everything that made him. but something happened there that was different from what everyone else was doing. things that he saw that others, he was not alone in this, but things that he saw that others did not necessarily see. dreeps that he. visions that he. that others did not necessarily have. and some were very much opposed to. he saw al

hopefully in joanne freeman's book. for example affairs of honor you can find out a lot about the dueling culture. and of course a lot of people had family relationships and upbringings and all of the things that people have i'm interested in what made hamilton the dynamic force that he was that was not like what everyone else did if you know what i mean, so i'm looking very specifically at what i guess i would call and i'm not alone in calling it this the great sort of creative phenomenon that he was that occurred at a certain time. i'm going to date it 1782 to 1795. you could date it a little differently. i'm just going to pick that period and say something happened there where of course with all of the things that went into his his life before he arrived in the continental congress. he brought all that baggage and all that inspiration and everything that made him but something happened there that was different from what everyone else was doing things that he saw that others. he was not alone in this but things that h