jocelyn: the count continues.confident in our processes and the transparency and security and methodical nature of our work. because of that, i want to be abundantly clear, no campaign, no politician, no political party, no candidate is going to stop the count in michigan. we are committed to getting this right, making sure it is accurate, and really trying to stay above the political fray to deliver results to michiganders across the state so no matter who they voted for, they can have faith in the accuracy of the results. judy: i'm asking because of the lawsuit and the fact the president is saying, since the election has taken place, he is saying i won michigan. he put that statement out there. jocelyn: we fully expected, and we know candidates can say things at any point in the election cycle, but candidates don't get to deteine who wins an election. the voters do. the election workers who work tabulate every ballot ensure every valid vote and only valid votes are counted. that is the work we are doing in michi

michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson. thank you for joining us on such short notice. >>> now to the other big story of the day, the once in a century coronavirus pandemic which has already taken nearly 250,000 american lives, decimated the economy and is surging across this country. cases are now rising in all 50 states. and while president trump has remained largely silent on the skyrocketing case count his own coronavirus task force just delivered a sobering assessment of how much this pandemic has spiralled out of control. nbc news has obtained a copy of its latest weekly report that says in part, that there is aggressive unrelenting expanding broad community spread across the country reaching most counties without evidence of improvement but rather, further deterioration, end quote. wow, broad community spread. remember nine months ago none of us knew what that meant? the report goes the current efforts to stop the spread are inadequate and must be increased to flatten the curve and the the upcoming thanksgiving holid

and someone said is jocelyn benson certained and you tweeted back you're not concerned.e appreciate you taking time to join us thooechb. secretary of state, jocelyn benson. thank you for joining us on such short notice. >>> all right. now to the other big story of the day, the once in a century coronavirus pandemic which has taken 250,000 american lives, decimated the economy and is surging across this country. cases are now rising in all 50 states. while president trump has remained largely silent on the skyrocketing case count, his own coronavirus task force just delivered a sobering assessment of how much this pandemic has spiralled out of control. nbc news has obtained a copy of the report that says in part, quote, aggressive, unrelenting expanding broad community spread across the county reaching most counties without evidence of improvement but further deterioration. end quote. broad community spread. nine months ago none of us even knew what that word meant. the report warns current efforts are inaccurate and thajs giving has the it's hard to imagine things gettin

greta: i want to look at who jocelyn benson is.s and people who have following this election over the past 24 hours have heard from this secretary of state dave number of times -- secretary of state a number of times. i found this on the michigan website. "e is the author of a book, state secretaries of state: guardians of the democratic process." she wrote this book, graduated harvard law school, is an expert on election law, she was toointed dean at age 36 wayne state university law school. to can read more if you go the website for michigan secretary of state. david, alexandria, virginia, here in the suburbs, on our support president trump line. how did the election go for you? >> it is not over with yet. i am a trump supporter, but i have a few things to say. wait until theto last minute to do all this counting and stuff? if there is going to be outside voting and the mail and absentee, why don't they do this for, five days, a week before, up to the date that we needed to get to election day, and have everything ready? this is

on election day and never waiver despite litigation. >> jocelyn benson, the secretary of state for the state of michigan, good luck. all eyes are watching you guys. >> oh, we're ready to go. >> our fingers are crossed. thank you very much. >> thank you. >>> up ahead, what kind of legal challenges should we be expecting in the coming days? fights over past marks, signatures, all of that. the question of violence and intimidation at the polls, that's next. >>> tomorrow continue to stay with the networks of nbc news. we have complete election day coverage in any flavor you might like. i'll be streaming live on nbc news now, and i'll join lester, savannah, andrea and your local station beginning at 7:00 p.m. we've got plans to go for days if necessary. here on msnbc, it's nicolle wallace who will start this election coverage at 4:00 p.m. afternoon, followed by chris hayes, and brian, rachel, joy and nicole, and they too plan to be on the air for days if necessary. we'll be right back. we'll be right back. [ thunder rumbles ] [ engine rumbling ] ♪ [ beeping ] [ engine revs ] ♪ uh, you know

michigan secretary of state of jocelyn benson. thank you for being here. i appreciate you making the time. >> sure. my pleasure. >> let me just ask your reaction to what we just heard from mr. timmer there. he's a former member of the state board of canvassers. he is very pessimistic about whether or not the president personally might be able to find some way to personally intimidate, pressure, or entice people involved with the certification of michigan's election result to pervert it and to try to install him as the winner of michigan's election even though biden won by so much. what's your reaction to those fears? >> i think a couple of things. one, it's clear that the voters of wayne county and the voters of michigan have made a choice, and it's also clear -- i mean notably this has been one of the most scrutinized elections in recent history for our state and probably in other states as well, that even in spite of all that scrutiny, there's been no irregularities uncovered, no evidence of widespread fraud, and therefore no legal or factual basis to ch

going to speak with the official in charge of running the election in michigan, secretary of state jocelyn benson. she'll join us in a moment. before we bring in the secretary of state, though, i first want to add one more voice to the conversation who have a very interesting perspective on this. his name is jeff timmer. he's a longtime michigan republican. he's a former republican member of the board of state canvassers in michigan. that's the group of four people who will be charged with certifying michigan's election results on monday. he used to be one of the two republican members of that board. that board has two republicans and two democrats. mr. timmer used to be one of those republican members. now, mr. timmer has since become an independent. he is a strong critic of president trump now. he is a senior adviser to the lincoln project and co-founder of republicans and independents for biden. but he's watching this closely and he's sort of sending up a warning flag for all of us. today he said this as a warning about what's going on in his home state with these efforts to throw out t

joining us now is jocelyn benson. thank you for being here.t to reverse themselves and they sign these avffidavits to do that, what happens. >> it has to be a open meeting, a vote taken, an adjournment. they all lead to an official certification. there is no legal avenue for any type of over turning of that. you won't see a pr strategy to try to sew seeds of doubt and the law is quite clear on this, every county has certified the results. this they are scheduled to meet on monday to formally certify the state-wide electors and move forward from there. >> what do you think the president is trying to do by calling these two board members. it is unclear exactly why he is inviting republican and michigan lawmakers to the white house. i know that the republican senate majority leader in your state had already told bridge, michigan, a local paper, that they can't over turn, they can't use the electors to try to over turn the popular vote, the popular vote is the popular vote. >> it is clear in michigan that the popular vote is how it is acarded. in

jocelyn benson. may we have that, please? okay.s that the truth won in this she scenario. basically, the evidence is clear, there were no irregularities, there was no evidence of widespread fraud and, in fact, they were simply minor clerical errors. then we were discussing actually less clerical errors than in past elections. >> yeah. lou: 71% is fewer than what they had in previous elections? >> technically, it was 72% in the august 4th primary. so i guess that's factually correct. still unacceptable for me as a vote or. i have, in my old senate district, i had clerks that were present there that they would not rest until all of their precincts were balanced. it would be 0% were unbalanced. detroit, for some reason, they have a different set of rules, and it's about time they're held accountable because it impacts all -- it disenfranchises all voters. and here's one bright spot in all of this is i've seen in the wake of what's happened in this outrageous subversion of election integrity, i'm seeing bernie supporters getting togeth

statean secretary of jocelyn benson gave an update on the election results and took a few questions from reporters. the associated press has declared joe biden the winner in michigan, but the trump campaign is pursuing legal action over the state's handling of ballast. this runs about 20 minutes. -- handling of ballots. this runs about 20 minutes. sec. benson: good evening. i'm proud to stand before you today to announce the results of our election in michigan. for nearly six weeks, from the moment voters began voting six weeks ago, the moment the polls closed at 8:00 p.m. on tuesday night, a record number of michigan citizens turned out to cast their votes and make their voices heard in a historic presidential election. overall more than 5.2 million michiganders voted in this election, more than any election in our state's history. many voted absentee, utilizing the mail or local drop boxes or their local clerks up offices to return their balances -- their ballots. on election day itself, in-person voting was exceptionally smooth, at polling locations where citizens of all background an

and within seconds jocelyn benson got on tv and said that's not binding. we are not going to do an audit. we are not going to look into it. listen, martha, if you have nothing to hide, what's the harm in doing an. we just found 6,000 votes that were not counted in georgia. they were not counted. they were missed because 6 an audit. with this type of discrepancy in wayne county, it's very reasonable to say we should look into this. especially when it's happened in three or four subsequent elections and the secretary of state refuses to deal with this issue. and it's hurting the whole state of michigan because people are losing faith in our election process. so fix it. don't call republicans racist. don't go there. these are nice people. these are hard-working people. they have families. they were derided and bullied and attacked last night. that's what's happening to any republican right now who is speaking up. mccarthyism at its best. let's not hire people from the trump administration. let's sensor them and attack them and silence their voices. it's a fri

joining us now is the secretary of state of michigan, jocelyn benison. thank you so much for being with us. what what happened overnight? >> the truth won out. two individuals on the wayne county board of canvassers who have a ministerial responsibility to certify the election results refusing to do so on baseless claims that were ultimately clerical errors that occur in nearly every election, in nearly every jurisdiction. and notably, the public spoke out sand identified and amplifid the truth that these elections should be certified, there's no reason they shouldn't be, and ultimately, they changed course after public comment, changed their votes, and ultimately, the board voted 4-0 to certify the wayne county election results, moving us now to a position where the state will look and certify those results as well. >> i want to talk about the future in just a moment, but i want to talk about what you agreed to overnight. the secretary of state's office has agreed to look into, to audit, basically the election process in wayne county. the gripe they had

you are named as the defendant, jocelyn benson in your official capacity. i suppose we begin with a lightning round and then give you time to give us a more lengthy consideration of the issues but yes or no, does this suit change any of the counting process thus far that your state is doing? >> nope. it does not. we've got a transparent, secure, meticulous process. we'll continue to count every vote, and ensure that every valid vote is counted. >> and yes or no, does this in your view change anything regarding the numbers you've provided to the press, which has begun calling some of these races including nbc projecting biden winning michigan? >> no, it does not, either. we're continuing to count every vote. we trust our process and we've been transparent and we stand by the numbers, the process and hard-working election workers tabulating every vote since the polls opened at 7:00 a.m. tuesday. >> copy. that's very important because you're giving us a context for what this has done. thus far, this suit has not changed anything in michigan. i want to give you

jocelyn benson is michigan's secretary of state and she joins us now from detroit. ms.enson, thank you so much for ta king with us. w the a.p., within the hour, called michigan for joe votes but there are sti being counted. so where does the counting stand right now? >> we believe we are close to seeing a full and complete, unofficial tabulation in the state. we certainly are on track to have those full results tonight. we are in the final stages in some of our larger jurisdictionn of wrapping up, which is way.ly a success story, by the weht it would take us much longer, but the efficiency and the meticulous work of our election workers has really put us in a position where we're proud to be able to have it near complete if not fully complete results in the next few hours to report out. heard some ofe folks who keep track of how ballot counting goes, and awa there are difficulties speaking about some of the challenges accounting hese so-called naked ballots. what problee you had in michigan as you have been counting? >> i think certainly a lolof our prems were dealt wit

joining me now is michigan's secretary of state, jocelyn benson. it's great to have you on. i guess the first question is, just talk me through, like, how often -- does this ever happen? how unprecedented or weird or anomalous is it for this small board -- for the republican commissioner to say, no, we're not certifying. >> notably, it's extremely rare. this a board that performs o. a ministerial function of certifying the results. they have in every election in years past. just this past august certified for themselves even with significant greater clerical errors. and so, you know, it really is disheartening when you consider that this is obviously a majority black city. the largest jurisdiction in the state of michigan. and here are two individuals going far beyond their role to invalidate the votes of tens of thousands of african-americans in the state of michigan. >> i just want to be clear here. the two individuals here, william hartman, who is a member of that board of canvassers, monica palmer, those are the two individuals saying basically, nope, we will not sign of

. >> reporter: we spoke to michigan's democratic secretary of state jocelyn benson who points out biden is leading in her state by nearly 150,000 votes. >> i've really seen this more as a press release masquerading as legal claims. >> reporter: at this point, are you angry at the president >> i'm deeply concerned about the misinformation that has tried to sow seeds of doubt throughout this election season it is very damaging to our democracy >> reporter: so is the outcome of the election really still in limbo here's what a deep dive into the lawsuits, recounts and numbers tell us. first, the recount in wisconsin where biden leads by over 20,000 votes, a recount is expected. in georgia where biden is about 14,000 votes ahead, a recount began today. so, what about the lawsuits >> the legal claims are outlandish and not supported by the facts on the ground as we know them. >> reporter: can any of these lawsuits make up the difference for the president? >> in a word, no there's been no legal claim whatsoever to justify invalidating or otherwise overturning 10,000, 20,000, 30,000 ballots. it

jocelyn benson ran on a promise to be transparent, and this election has been anything but transparentrbed by the fact that the secretary of state was unable to tell voters how many votes were left to be counted, often citing figures which had no apparent basis in reality. i don't understand this simple math. i don't believe it's unreasonable for the people of michigan to expect the secretary of state to report within a few hours the total number of ballots cast. [applause] repeatedly in interviews with the media, secretary of state benson continued to state that there were about 100,000 ballots to be counted despite the fact that tens of thousands of ballots continued to be added to the city's total and that those interviews were hours apart. in addition, it should not have been difficult to find this number seeing municipalities are required to report how many absentee ballots they have received. simple math should have made it easy to know how many absentee ballots needed to be counted. jocelyn benson has repeatedly tried to dismiss these allegations of election irregularities acros

wayne county has resulted in those michigan's other counties go to secretary of state jocelyn benson,rat to present to the state canvassing board scheduled to meet monday, that board is made of four members, two democrats, two republicans so we will see what happens. in georgia we should soon know the results of the hand recount. we already know thousands of uncounted votes were uncovered. in floyd county 2600 ballots, 800 votes for donald trump, in fayette county 2700 ballots, 449 votes and in douglas and walton counties the most recent, 577 ballots total, 108 votes for trump. all of that, the overall margin deficit but georgia's director of election operations says if the shoe were on the other for the biden campaign would be pursuing this. >> 14,000 votes the other way i believe biden supporters would be screaming this was inappropriate and not done correctly. >> the gop chairman david shafer claims biden's vote was overcome the by 9600 votes but sterling dismissing that saying there are was discovered and corrected before entering the official ballot count. biden legal advisor exp

trump versus jocelyn benson in her official capacity as secretary of state. to make an initial -- emergency matters usually emerge in the middle of other matters. , it was filed:00 with the court of claims. at the time it was filed there was a complaint, while it was a verified complaint, it did not have an affidavit affixed to it. it did not at that time have a request for a temporary restraining order attached to it. he did not have a request for relief attached to it. , the in the evening democratic national committee filed a petition to intervene. this morning, sometime around a set of supplemental papers were filed on behalf of the plaintiff, the first of which was something that and it was anence , and i will mispronounce the name. there was a file for injunctive relief. thatourt determined because of the nature of the -- that we would let parties come forward and say what they needed to say as we could. the court has not ruled on a petition to intervene filed on ,ehalf of the democratic party but did afford them the ,pportunity to file papers while the

that is wider than the margin between either of these candidates according to secretary of state jocelyn benson. we are standing at the tcf center in detroit, people have been working around the clock throughout the overnight hours trying to process as many absentee ballots as they possibly can, literally coming in and out in 900-person shifts just to keep, again, this process moving. at last check that we heard from them we had about a little over 90,000 outstanding absentee ballots, my guess is based on the pace that they've been working at over the course of the night they've shrunk that a little bit, but we did just hear from someone, an official here with the clerk's office who walked by and said they initially were hoping to get that count done by early this morning but that it will likely be a little bit later into the day as well. when you look at timelines that we are seeing in other locations as well, i mentioned sterling heights, that's in a county, a suburb of detroit, macomb county, they were actually hoping to get their vote done by 7:00 a.m. this morning. well, we're obvio

versus jocelyn benson in her official capacity as secretary of state. an initiale to make apology, emergency matters usually emerge in the middle of other matters, that is their nature. matteray at 4:00, this went to court of claims. at the time it was filed. there is a complaint for declaratory relief. while it was a verified complaint. it did not have an affidavit affixed. it did not have a request for a temporary restraining order without notice attached. we did not have a request for injunctive relief attached. later in the evening the democratic national committee after hours filed a petition to intervene. this morning sometime around the supplemental papers were filed on behalf of the plaintiff. the first of which was something that addressed supplemental evidence. .t was an affidavit additionally there was a petition filed for injunctive relief. withoutt determined proof of service, because of the nature, that i needed to put it in the middle of our case vault and let parties come forward and say what they need to say and as quickly matter as the

they're going to have to go through the legislators, maybe work with the secretary of state, jocelyn benson, and she can reach out to the clerks in michig michigan. we are local clerks run election, and we work with the county clerks. so between the secretary of state, the county clerks and local clerks, maybe we can come up with something. it's the county clerk that runs the canvass. so they have worked the last two weeks tirelessly, 12, 14, 15 hour days, trying to get this ready to be certified yesterday. >> i'm glad you brought up your team, susan, your team is very emblematic of teams all across the country who are people behind the scenes, carrying out elections. we've gotten to know much more about them in this election than any other previous one. some of their efforts have been maligned. how are you all holding up? >> we were a little tired. unfortunately i had to go into quarantine last week. a member of my family did test positive. i tested negative, but i had to be in quarantine. i'm still in it. it's kind of difficult, two weeks after an election, for a clerk to be in qua

after the break, jocelyn benson joins me with her response along with the threat of unrest in that stateden is the projected winner in michigan according to nbc news. that's only heightened tensions in that closely watched battle ground state. a crowd of trump supporters attempted to force their way inside a counting center in detroit wednesday as workers tabulated inside. one witness said their demands would not change the results. >> things are secure on the inside. of course we have intimidating efforts on the outside. we're not deterred. as goes detroit will go michigan. they been saying along they'll suggest it's rigged. they've been saying that before now. we need to be persistent to make sure our voice gets counted. i will say, the black vote in detroit is higher than it's ever been. we'll determine the outcome because we've gone from picking cotton to picking presidents. >> the trump campaign has demanded that its poll volunteers be granted access. joining us now is michigan's secretary of state. thank you for joining us. are you preparing for an appeal? >> no. the court recogniz

efforts to undermine the election in michigan, pennsylvania, georgia the michigan secretary of state, jocelynks so much for joining. good luck. >> thank you. >> donald trump jr. has now tested positive for covid-19. we are also learning that rudy giuliani is now self-isolating after his son's covid-19 diagnosis. cnn's brian todd is joining us, right now. brian, giuliani and his son were both at that rather bizarre news conference, yesterday, that's raising so many questions about rudy giuliani's legacy. >> a lot of those questions circulating, tonight, wolf, and no easy answers to them. what many observers do believe, though, is this a very different man from the once-rising republican star, who once had an incredible shot at the presidency. a news conference that was laced with falsehoods and conspiracy theories. president trump's personal lawyer, rudy giuliani, and his legal team made bogus claims about fraudulent votes and corrupt vote counting in states that trump lost. >> if you count the lawful votes, trump won wisconsin by a good margin. indeed, if you count the lawful votes in pennsyl

jocelyn benson, the secretary of state in michigan.. what we were seeing there, as you mentioned, was a real emphasis from the michigan secretary of state their saying that we need to get it right. it isn't about speed, getting it right. the remaining balance they're waiting for are the absentee balance. —— absentee ballots. these are people who didn't take part in early voting. they mailed in their votes. generally we know that they skew democrat across michigan. people who send in their ballots tend to be favoured by democrats. and we know that currentlyjoe biden is in the lead by about 34,000 votes. so, the biden campaign is going to be very pleased with what's coming out of michigan right now. but we still haven't crossed the final line. just to be clear, this isn't unexpected. we did know that in some of these states it may take many hours, possibly days, before we got a final result. patience is the watchword, lucy! i'm not very patient, i don't know that whether —— don't know whether you are but we have to be patient. it isn't a

let's go straight to michigan to the secretary of state there jocelyn benson.retary benson, thank you so much for being with me. >> my pleasure. thanks for having me. >> let's start with the phone call between the republicans on the election board. do you know what was said on this call. have you talked to monica palmer or william hartman? >> no, because it would be improper for anyone, including candidates, to interfere what is actually a clear administrative process and protocol that boards of canvass are expected to follow. it's clear wayne county and michigan county voters have spoken. there's no legal or factual basis to question their choice. my office accepts wane county certification as it is and will be calling on the board of state canvassers to do the same. >> what will you do to get to the bottom of this? as you're saying, this call was improper? >> good night, i'm focused on my role as the chief election officer, just as we would expect the state board of canvassers and anyone else in the process to be focused on doing their jobs and not moving out

michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson has this said this many times but they can be audits or recountaw until this state board certifies those results so that is just how the process is supposed to work despite the request that you noted from the national state public and parties. eric: the two top republican leaders of your state went to the white house on friday and with that statement blasting basically allegations of voter fraud there but let me read you what the majority leader it up michigan speaker lee chatfield said weird quote, michigan served asian process should be deliberate processed free from thoughts of intimidation but allegations of fraudulent behavior should be taken seriously and proven prosecuted to the full extent of the law and the candidate to win the most votes wins elections and michigan's electoral votes and these are simply truths that cannot provide or should provide confidence in our elections and is there any evidence of voter fraud, double voting, switch voting and the sort of thing that would be or first of all, has there been evidence or cases of that

the michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson is holding a virtual briefing.ns of thousands of votes are still being counted and they could have results by friday or sooner. they are still counting votes at flint, detroit, and kalamazoo. georgia officials now saying they expect all votes to be counted today. they have about 200,000 ballots left to be counted according to state officials. as of right now, joe biden currently has 238 electoral votes versus president trump's 213. trump casting doubt on the counting process in a series of tweets and he will go to the supreme court as he tries to hold on to the early leads. joining us is mark alexander, villanova law school dean. is what willo know be the case that could be brought to the supreme court? can you walk me through what the technicalities are? the principal is in america we have a great tradition where people cast their votes and we count every vote. the first thing that has to happen is the process has to run. we can never stop votes before they have been counted. if they have been counted, there could

monaco palmer, she says this, this is very interesting, later that evening, statements that secretary jocelynde saying she did not view our audit resolution to be binding, her comments disputed the representations by the vice chair on which i relied. as a result of these facts i rescind my prior vote to certify wayne county elections. i fully believe wayne county votes should not be certified so the bottom line is they suggested to the republicans they would authorize an art, then the secretary of state said that's not necessarily binding, i don't have to do that and that made them flip again so the very latest we have tonight, republicans who agreed to certify now say they will not. >> i talked to one of the attorneys on the ground has been working on some of these cases and he said, i asked him if they don't agree to the audit is going to nullify their vote and he said that his sticky legal territory but that may be part of what we are hearing tonight, they are not confident that was going to happen. i want to read but we are happening with the trump legal team, she says we've also learned

says and this is very interesting she said later that evening i was sent statements that secretary jocelynthat she did not view our audit resolution to be binding, that's very important for cummins disputed the representations made by the vic chair on which i relight as a result of these facts, i rescin my prior vote to certify wayne county elections. i firmly believe wayne county votes should not be certified. that is from monica palmer. the bottom line here is that they were suggested to the republicans that yes they would go ahead and authorize an audit that is the secretary of state website to michigan, that's not necessarily binding, i don't have to do that. and that made them flip again. the very latest we have tonight come republicans who agreed to certified now say they will not. >> i talked to one of the attorneys on the ground there that's been working on these cases and he said last night, i asked him is the two agreed to the audit will it nullify their votes and he said that's answering a very sticky legal territory so that means bb part of what were hearing tonight is that the

join us than to talk about an election coming up in michigan than the state's secretary of state jocelyn benson. you're a great person to talk to because we mentioned this earlier, there are some states on election night particularly in the south like a florida, a north carolina where we expect to get the vast majority of the vote in. michigan, there seems to be a lot more question marks. you are the elections official in the michigan. how much of the vote in michigan do you think we will be able to see on tuesday night? >> well, it remains to be seen. however, we are telling people we'll have more of an update closer to tuesday. in fact, the morning of the election is when about 3 million absentee ballots will begin to be tabulated. it's very unlikely that we'll have resulted in any jurisdiction by the time the polls close at around 9:00. around the time the polls close, we will make another announcement about how far we are in that tabulation process. from the moment those polls close to when we have that full tabulation, we'll continue to update the public. we've said all along people

joining me, now, to discuss is michigan's secretary of state, jocelyn benson. so good to see you. you very much. i appreciate you joining. >> always a pleasure, don. thanks for having me. >> so, secretary, president trump has been trying to overturn the will of the voters and he set his sights on michigan. based on this statement, i mean, it sounds like he failed. >> i know the lawmakers who met with the president today, quite well. they are people who do respect the rule of law. and would expect, also, what they said publicly, not obstruct the will of the voters. and in michigan, the will of the voters has been clearly stated and there is no facts or legal avenue to really overturn or obstruct that. and so, i'm optimistic and grateful that the lawmakers seem to agree, and see -- see things the same way. >> okay. so, you know, everyone at home is there's always something. my gosh. going to steal it with local legislators. you know that. what the concern is. so, what is the next step towards certifying your results? and is there any way the president could interfere with that? >> w

jocelyn benson, michigan secretary of state, said the discrepancies cited were minor and routine. >> there was no evidence of irregularities. no evidence of widespread fraud that had become evident at any point in this process nor were there any presented to the wayne board of canvassers. it showed less errors than before. >> so partisan politics is one thing, but the situation in detroit is perhaps the starkest example yet of how the voting systems are being tested by the president's misguided effort to challenge his defeat. president trump applauded the initial vote by the republicans to stop the vote. praising them for their, quote, courage. he's been silent on their final vote to certify. >>> now to pennsylvania where another one of the president's legal challenges in the state that biden won is falling apart. this time in the pennsylvania supreme court. the keystone state top bench ruled that there was nothing that required ballot observers to stand within six feet has been argued. this undercuts what the president was saying on twitter, that they were being unfairly discriminat

and named in the lawsuit, michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson. she joins me now.ill an secretary, thank you so much. i know it is a very busy time. >> of course. >> how serious are you taking this new lawsuit from the trump campaign? >> it's important to recognize, this is a pr strategy, a political strategy more than a legal strategy. and in my view, we have to call it out for what it is. it is false information designed to erode the public's confidence in what was actually a very well-run election. and i'll confident as any inquiries proceed in michigan or other states, the american public will see the truth which is that this election was extraordinarily well run under very challenging circumstances, and the results are an accurate reflection of the will of the people. >> it may end up, and probably will end up doing exactly the opposite of what they want. it should give people confidence in the election. >> i hope so. look. this was one of the highest turnout elections in modern history, if not the highest. in michigan we had more people voting than ever befor

here is what michigan's secretary of state jocelyn benson just told us about this drama. >> a lot of this is just really a strategy to erode public confidence in what was a very well-run, secure election and we see this as a battle front not just in michigan but around the country. it's important that we call it out for what it is. these efforts are not going to be successful. the people have spoken. the election has occurred. >> okay. let's bring in the governor of michigan, gretchen whitmer. good morning, governor. >> good morning. >> can you just tell us where you were and what you said out loud when you heard that the wayne county republicans were trying not to certify the election results. >> i was here at the residence and i'm not going to tell you precisely what i said, but you can imagine it was just kind of mind-boggling. this is a ministerial duty that these board members have -- has taken an oath to uphold and this was incredibly distressing for that short period of time that it stood and then they came back and i just want to give kudos to all of the activists who organiz

hour, jocelyn benson is standing by. she'll join us live in "the situation room" as well.rkansas governor asa hutchinson is joining us now. congratulations on this new assignment that is going to keep you very, very busy, as if being governor of arkansas isn't enough. you noted that some of the president's outstanding legal battles, you said you do expect that joe biden will be the next president of the united states. but now we're seeing so many of the president's legal arguments fail in court after court after court. do you agree with former new jersey governor chris christie's statement that he issued today? >> i think what you're seeing, wolf, and particularly from the commentary that you just provided, is that state by state, you're seeing the election process work through. and i think that's the hallmark of our democracy. i think you have to be patient with it. yes, i expect under the current scenario that joseph biden is going to be the next president of the united states. but that does not obviate the right and the privilege of president trump to take these appeals

9:30:00 p.m., they voted to certify the results under the stipulation that the secretary of state jocelynes a comprehensive audit of the election in the county, one of the attorneys who was involved with one of the fights said to me there was a lot of pushback. he thought there were threats against these people and that's where we are now with the vote certified. >> we are hearing reports that interim time period is about two hours, really critical -- you have these g.o.p. board members who very rightly are saying significant discrepancies, we have reports of 71% of the precincts, the ballot count does not match the voter rolls. that is significant, that is not a political question. no matter if you are a democrat or republican you should be concerned about. then in the interim, sitting congresswoman rashida tlaib are accusing these people of racism, then they back off. they allow the secretary of state who was a political democrat operative to conduct an audit backing off, this is mob rule at this point and the president is right these people need to have courage and the state of michiga

. ♪ >>> today, michigan's secretary of state jocelyn benson announced all 83 counties have voted to certifyesults of the election. last night, the president mischaracterized a temporary deadlock vote to certify the results in wayne county, calling it, quote, a beautiful thing. hours after the initial vote and facing criticism that the vote was politically and racially motivated, the board voted unanimously to certify those election results. on the same day, rudy giuliani returned to federal court for the first time since 1992 to try and prevent pennsylvania officials from certifying the vote results in that state. "the washington post's" bob costa reports giuliani's team knows the president can't win, and instead are trying to make sure the vote is not certified. quote, their end game, to try to force it to the house. joining me now is msnbc chief legal analyst and anchor of "the beat" ari melber and "washington post" colonist and nbc political analyst eugene robinson. rudy didn't present evidence yesterday of widespread fraud. it's safe to say that argument continues to get weak by the day

trump versus jocelyn benson in her official capacity as secretary of state. to make an initial -- emergency matters usually emerge in the middle of other matters. yesterday at 4:00

today michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson said this. >> the law is also very clear about whathappen and there's lots of checks and balances in place to protect the will of the people and to protect and preserve the democratic process, small "d" democratic process. and so i fully expect no matter what avenue and how circuitous it is we'll take that path and the will of the people of michigan will direct the state's electors as required under law. >> joining us now is michigan lieutenant governor garlin gilchrist. lieutenant governor, what is the legal situation there if on monday one of the republicans of this group of four has a problem doing his job? >> lawrence, first of all, thank you for having me on to discuss this. the four-person decides by majority vote. so we fully expect that a majority of the michigan state board of catchers will do their job and carry out their responsibility and certify the same election results that all 83 counties in michigan have also certified. they don't participate in the kinds of republican stunts and tactics that are being directed by the

. >> that is the secretary of state of michigan jocelyn benson the center of attention right now becausether state the trump administration is fighting the results, a judge threw out the case that you had been seeing rudy giuliani involved in earlier this week. so now the michigan secretary of state is supposed to certify the state's election to show joe biden as the winner tomorrow. there's a board of conversers that have to agree on this. donald trump and the republican party of michigan and the republican party, the head of the national republican party, are all trying to get them to delay doing that. we're not sure to what end because donald trump lost michigan quite handily. and he specifically lost wayne county, which is where detroit is, very handily. the result is they're trying to stop the certification of the results in wayne county. they almost succeeded the other day. it's two republicans and two democrats who certify it. the two republicans decided not to go along with it. under public pressure they decided to vote in favor of certifying it and got a phone call from donald t