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the michigan secretary of state, democrat jocelyn benson, joins us now.erstanding is you spoke in march with the prosecution team for several hours as part of this criminal probe into the efforts to overturn the 2020 election. i'm not sure how much or how comfortable you are going into what you told them, but obviously, michigan, it's no surprise, is one of the states, one of the battleground states that is central to this investigation. share with us what you can about what you were asked about. >> certainly. thanks for having me here, jake, on this really sad day for our country, a momentous day, and one that is the reflection of crimes that were committed against voters in this country and also the meticulous fact-based work of the pr prosecutor and his team, and so it was an honor to meet with them and share with them everything we experienced in the lead-up to and the months following the 2020 election. and what i would say, and a lot of this -- my testimony before the january 6th congressional committee also underscored in great detail, was the fact

joined by a key official who stood in the way of that effort, that is michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson thank you so much for being with us today and spending some time with us. 16 fake electors have been charged as you are well aware by your attorney general there in michigan. jack smith refers to the michigan fake electors several times in this indictment. i know you've read that. he does not label them, however, as co-conspirators. should that be a concern for criminal prosecution of those folks in your state? >> not necessarily, and thanks for having me and focusing on really the extraordinary charges, not just at the federal level but at the state level. these were felony charges filed against 16 individuals in michigan. they allegedly knowingly sought to defraud the federal government and the state government lying about who -- what was the right official to receive the electoral college votes of our state so i have confidence in the process in michigan, that legal process is going to play out. i won't necessarily expecting to see indictments at the federal level especially when w

a forgery would be, you have the governor's signature or you have essentially a signature of jocelyn bensonot here. >> he was given a signature page. he didn't have an opportunity to read anything. nothing was given to him. he relied on other people who were telling him what this was about, so he had no intent to do anything wrong. he just signed a piece of paper that did not have any of that language in it. >> reporter: other attorneys have called this all a political prosecution or saying that this is the attorney general trying to stretch the law. this case is going to be watched closely across the country, katy. it is the first case. we've seen this fake elector scheme play out across the country. it's the first time that you're seeing 16 of them charged. they are now arraigned. they all pleaded not guilty, and we'll expect to see them in court again later this month. >> shaq, i know you were showing one of the lawyers that document. let's put the document up on the screen because we have it as well. other defendants have made a similar claim, they signed blank pieces of paper. let me s

let's go now to ryan goodman, former special counsel at the department of defense, jocelyn benson, the democratic michigan secretary of state, she was interviewed by prosecutors in the federal election probe as well. and also with us, george conway, the conservative lawyer. so thanks very much to all of you. ryan, you're with me. january 2nd, is that just sort of a starting point on the negotiation? >> i think it's a starting point, and that the judge will probably accommodate the defendant in this case in terms of trying to set a time that's probably a bit later. it does look like president trump is his lawyers will ask for it to be after the election. >> certainly he asked tonight, not formally, but he put it out there. >> that's what they did in florida, they said the same thing, so you would assume they'd say the same thing here. maybe it gets pushed back a month or two but it seems that it will start at the beginning of the year. >> secretary benson, you were interviewed by federal prosecutors in this case. there's actually a whole section in the indictment about trump's attempts

jocelyn benson s. a former law dean, as secretary of state that we just heard from.ever come to pass, it's important to have these conversations. our constitution is supposed to protect us against things likes insurrections. we have built into the constitution backstops and safeguards to ensure that democracy continues. if we don't pay close attention when we need it to the critical clauses, we really could see or democracy crumble. this conversation is important, even if it never comes to pass. inches dan why will holley, charlie sykes, john heilemann. i'm so grateful to have the three of you to turn to. >>> a quick break for us, we'll be right back. k break for us, w be right back. but you know what is? myplan from verizon. (vo) football season is here. get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy z flip5. only on verizon. become an aunty. book a flight. stay 4 nights. meet the baby. make the baby cry. give the baby back. fly home. silver tier in a single trip. join one key and move up tiers fast. ♪inspiring music♪ ♪ sta

so shaye moss, ruby freeman, al schmidt in philadelphia, secretary raffensperger, jocelyn benson in michiganple outside their house or e-mailing, texting them incredibly vile hateful messages, threatening messages. right? this is awful enough that we're talking about a political attempt to subvert the joint session. but jack smith and fani willis are going to develop the real human cost of this. real people whose safety was threatened. and frankly it continues to be an issue as long as the president says if you come after me i'm coming after you. people take that seriously, nicolle. that's why as glenn kirschner was saying in your previous segment, this will be taken really seriously by any of the judges before whom these cases are pending. >> do you think, tim heaphy, that jeffrey clark who sort of orchestrated the coup atop doj and mark meadows who traveled down to georgia to plot overturning trump's defeat, do you think they'll be charged by fani willis today or tomorrow? >> i think they have exposure. absolutely. as our report indicated, i think arguably both jeff clark and mark meadows