here now to discuss his jocko willink, retired u.s. navy seal and extreme ownership author.jocko. you are the only reason my kids are turning into night. let's talk about the leadership during the pandemic. how do you assess it? >> i think one of the biggest problems that i saw during the whole pandemic, the way it unfolded, as a leader, you have to realize that you don't know everything, and if you make a guess about what direction you should had it and it turns out that your guess was wrong, you need to be able to adjust and try something new. i saw, really, both sides of the aisle that committed to some sort of theory, and then stayed on that path, even after we knew that theory was no longer correct. >> rachel: right, and studies have come out about obesity, has really only happened the last couple months, and i'm wondering come all summer along when we were locked inside, they knew these numbers, it's not rocket science, right? it makes sense, even looking at the country, and looking at the obesity rates. why do you think we didn't hear about -- why didn't they tell us