with us today access tv dan rather, the bbc katty kay, "the new york times" jodi kantor and abc's sam donaldson. first up the petraeus story and it has us disturbed. washington is just as dumbfounded, torn between wonder at the dysfunction of our national security leaders and of course reluctant curiosity. dan, why does this same thing keep happening? it just happens, these powerful men, even as disciplined as petraeus. you know petraeus. >> i do know him and like him and think he's been a great patriot and public servant. but in answer to your question, i simply don't know. what we do know is it occurs, has occurred not just in our time and our country but all through difficult times. part of it is i think people who reach the pinnacle begin to think they can do things that other people can't do. they think i'm so high, nobody will ever find out about this. best i can do, unless you want to accept what my great grandmother used to say, there's simply no damn good. chris: we'll stop short with that but maybe you want to talk. >> i agree with dan but people in high positions, they're s

in fact, jodi kantor has written about those sessions between the president and the historians. how does history judge most presidents? george washington and f.d.r. in the top three and lincoln is number one, and fourth, thomas jefferson. i'm so impressed that you got to write the book. what gives thomas jefferson, the author of the declaration of independence, the right to be up there with the top three? del there are three things. one, he doubled the size of the country with the louisiana purchase, seizing a moment that might have slipped away. napoleon rethought this real estate deal and jefferson moved more quickly, got it done. i think he ratified in his political career, in his presidency, the promise of the declaration and the spirit of the declaration by turning the country in a republican direction aftered federalism of washington and adams. he believed that the revolution of 1800 was as significant as the revolution of 1776. and i think his essential understanding of the politics of the personal relationship he left as a model of socialability, of retail politics, that

dan rather, katty kay, jodi kantor for "the new york times" and sam donaldson. that's the show. thanks for watching. hope you and your family have much to be grateful for. see you back here

joining the panel is jody kantor of the "new york times." welcome. >> thank you. >> a lot of assessment and dissection last night about what happened. i guess following all that sound and quotes, wrb does wrshs where does the gop go? fred barns writes no doubt the media must insist the republicans must change, embrace social liberalism, all that is hogwash which is why republicans are likely to reject it. their ideology is not a problem. >> my colleague carl set up a great contrast in this morning "times" and said the republicans have two camps. they have the mathematicians, people who are looking at the kind of demographic numbers you were talking about saying the party has no choice. then on the other hand, there are the priests, there are the hard-core ideologues who believe that if only the republican party could be more conservatively pure, they could dominate. so we are going to see the latest chapter of a struggle that has been playing out for a while over the soul of the gop. and in a way, it is a weird postponement of coming that wa