jodi kantor joins me now. she is a prize-winning in the thicket of reporter for the "new york times", and one of the offers of that report. jodi, thanks. >>> tracking employees sounds very orwellian, wire company doing this, and do they find it actually boost productivity? >> one of the most fascinating parts of this reporting, was speaking to the people who really believe in these systems. they say that it makes work more fair, but you can reward great performers, and get rid of derelict employees. they had some pretty amazing stories of workers who were really cheating, and what they say is that it can boost performance, it can boost profits, and also, we speak of a kind of inevitability. they say everything is measured, now, get used to it. >> how long until employees discover a workaround? it's only a matter of time, right? >> oh, they already have. if you don't know what email stigler is, i suggest you look on the internet, or on tiktok. it is this device that moves your mass for you, to create the appeara

ascendant to imagine that the allostatic load is for some people from systemic racism or during jodi kantor is reporting on harvey weinstein thing, that there's some kind of unique suffering because of gender bias and assault, gender-based assault in the workplace. we go through periods like this and i think that the kind of certainty of our politics lies in the certainty of what we see as pain and being asked to imagine religion-based suffering, and it is more important somehow our class-based suffering is more important than other kinds of suffering is just another way of slicing and dicing the polity, and i'm not sure represents more or less progress, or even a very robust critique. >> thomas, any thoughts and response? that was a lot to take on. >> first i want is a thank you for such a wonderful introduction, and thank you also. i'm just going, i guess that my hand to identify as a liberal but i have very strong interest in kind of dialogue and exchange and mutual understanding and the attempt to forge new alliances with people from other camps who share similar values or are trying to