joe -- >> for symbolism. it is so extraordinarily irrational and so anti-conservative because from russell kirk to william f. buckley to ronald reagan, conservatism was always supposed to be about a connection to reality. what's real, what works, what stops us from being swept up in mindless ideology. >> well, let's set ideology and principled conservatism to one side and let's stick with donald trump and his wall. and let's ask ourselves, as something the president has clearly never even thought about is what does it say about the strength and real devotion of his supposed base if they would walk away from him if he doesn't get $5 billion for a wall? he fears they would walk away from him? boy, that's some strong base that he has got there. they flee because he can't get $5 million for a foolish wall? susan paige -- >> yeah, done. >> go ahead . >> no, no, i was just going the ask donnie the question, but why don't we ask susan paige. i thought donald trump said he could shoot somebody on fifth avenue and get away with it. he can't even get away with rush limbaugh and ann coulter being upset with him for 15 minutes.