joe crowley, talk to me about what nancy pelosi is doing, this high wire act.she going to come out on the other side? >> people are looking for pixie dust or special sauce. it doesn't exist. what she has is decades of experience. she knows her members. she knows their districts. she knows the politics of those districts. she has seen those changes that have taken place. that is all in that mind of hers and she is going to use the next hours to try to, you know, pull this all together. i think the news from the senate in terms of today, manchin, a starting point $1.5 trillion. no matter what this is transformative and pelosi knows it. i think that is what she was speaking to when she was kind of alluding to, you know, i think people are making more of that than they should maybe. in my 20 years i never saw 1.5, 2 trillion, $3.5 trillion package before us. this is twice the size of the affordable care act. it is monumental and transformative. forget the process maybe. it's about the product. at the end of the day there will be a great product out of washington d.

former congressman joe crowley, a member of speaker pelosi's leadership team. and michelle goldberg, a columnist with "the new york times." i will give you the floor, mr. crowley, and i expect you will give all your candid views. but i'm going to go to michelle first, i want your fully independent view of what is happening here, and whether when joe manchin says take the win, that means he's fully preparing to also take a loss on the second plan. >> i think it's worth reading the entirety of manchin's statement. because you're right, it has really bad news for anyone who wants to pass the entirety of the $3.5 trillion reconciliation bill. but he leaves a few openings, talking about correcting the imbalances of the trump tax bill, he's open to some new social spending, but he wants it to be means tested. i think he's wrong on the policy and the politics. but at least there's an opening there. there's something that democrats can work with. it seems to me that the real villain of this whole unfolding drama is kyrsten sinema. progressives are begging moderate sena

a bill that the man she beat for congress, joe crowley, had introduced.we are joined by rosa bramble caballero, a licensed clinical social worker who has helped immigrant 9/11 workers for 15 years and hosts meetings at the basement of her office in queens. thank you for being with us. what should we understand -- this whole idea that those who go uncounted in life go uncounted in death? maybe we don't even know the exact number of people who died at the world trade center. >> good morning, amy, thank you for having me. actually, with the undocumented workers who worked at ground zero in the recovery efforts, many have died or have returned to their country and there is really no record because no one is really keeping record of these workers who really sacrificed their lives. as many of us were in our homes and in our safety, they were out there cleaning up, exposing themselves to so many toxins. they had a spit of recovery. they wanted to be part of the effort. and now 20 years later, they're pretty much left in the dark. like one of the workers said, "w