-- actually pled guilty to corruption and it was joe kerry who had been a fundraiser for al gore, for bill clinton. he'd been a very prominent national democratic from chicago. and rod blagojevich turned to him to want to know how to put together a national fundraising operation probably in about the third year of his first term -- second year of his first term so he wanted the roots into, you know, how to put together this organization. and he also turned to a political strategy firm out of washington, d.c., squire, knaap and dunn as soon as they were creating a national fundraising strategy they were trying to position rod blagojevich to become a national candidate and that's what happened to a lot of his politics in illinois because many of his policies that he was so passionate about such as some kind of universal healthcare, even the all-kids program which was a very successful program -- many of those were based -- i mean, he believed in these things but they were also would position him very well for a run for the presidency. he liked these big national issues that could get na

and, for instance, when he talked to joe kerry who ended up being indicted -- actually, he p

kerry's wife. they go after the upper middle- class people. host: thank you, joe.uest: we fought a revolution about taxation without representation. sometimes you have over 40% who pay no federal income tax and you have 10% who pay 86% of the taxes. it seems that they are piling on and going after the higher income element. the super-rich find ways to shelter their money. if you are worth hundreds of millions or billions of dollars you put it into tax-exempt bonds. there are many ways to shelter your money. the rest of us who might make good incomes do not have the same ability to do that. the tax policies have yet to play out for this administration as do other economic policies. they inherited a situation. time will tell. as a former member of congress looking at this debt is gary over the long term with the entitlement programs and the retirement of baby boomers. i think there are long-term consequences that will be very bad. how soon the place into the electoral strategy and concerns remains to be seen. host: our guest spent 14 years in congress representing fa