to joe lieberman. senator, great to see you. >> great to be here. neil: um, you know, here is what i wond irabout, and i want your thought on the chinese and all, but when you ran homeland securityy committee, were you aware that something of this bread and nature was going to? >> i was aware of the two programs that were the first focus of the leaks from snowden. >> you knew millions of americans phone records were being saved. >> right, it -- iifill it was the very important for our security. neil: why. >> it does not violate people's privacy, the so-called metadata they look for patterns in connection with phone numbers, only do this with a court order. this is a form of due process. then as i understood, for some reason they saw something more and they wanted to go further into really, tapping someone's phone or something they had to get a specific court order and show pab always. this is not -- probable cause this is not lawless, this is within the law. i tell you, i know general alexander testified before congress to this effect, this program

neil: i had joe lieberman on the phone and he was with me last night. you know, i can't get into specifics, but i can tell you that this very program has led to trouble. you know, you never know. but now you rein it in. i am with you on this. heaven knows what wi come our way. >> you cannot use anecdotes to justify this. the reason the founders put in place isto proteccur rights. there is a alance between security and liberty. it is presented in the constitution andt fourth amendment.@ that is what we wnt to otect. it is important to note that a lot of members of cogress aren't even given access to the law because the secret crt opinions -- we do not know unless you are on this committee. we do not know how theaw is actually working. neil: will bpart of the powwow of the individuals? >> it has not changed mind. if anything, it has emboldened me. we have classified briefings. there are documents th we would want access o. though that i'm working on with represtive conyers, it would provide us critical information so that we can represent our constituents

. >> joe lieberman, the former homeland security chairman of the senate, he was telling me that that kind of thing has stopped. of course, that is like wondering what the point was. that there is some good. what do you say to that? >> i say the value is an analysis after costs. so what cost are we getting value. neil: what if entering upon a condo talked about this. >> i don't give up the liberties that have made america america. i'm willing to live with some toys are you at some point, enough is enough. this is too much. the government is spying on half the country. the whole purpose of the fourth amendment was to make sure that we didn't have fishing expeditions and dragnets and to give the government what it means. but the government has to show a target. it has to show suspicion. neil: but what about looking for a proverbial needle in a haystack? >> it simply can't always do that. he called the bolsheviks and he said that he would look at everybody. neil: that was a total bolshevik >> the purpose is to prevent the government from doing it in large numbers what it is doing to us.

senator lindsey graham, joe lieberman were in baghdad for the fourth of july. general petraeus requested that we speak at a reenlistment ceremony where 800 brave young men and women serving in the military were reenlisting to stay and fight. there was another group who were green cardholders who because they joined the military had an accelerated path to citizenship. i was honored to be there. in the front row, there were four empty seats. men and women who were green cardholders who had lost their lives in combat in the previous 48 hours. men willing to risk their lives and serve our country in order to be citizens. i have never been so deeply moved. madam president, let's give these 11 million people a chance i yield.e same. [applause] >> senator from texas. >> i know the gang of eight members responsible for the basic framework of this legislation have done tremendous work and have advanced the substance and tone of our discussion in measure blaze-- miserably since -- measurably since 2007, which is the last time we had a major immigration bill on the floor.

senator lindsey graham, senator joe lieberman, my beloved friend and i, were in baghdad for 4th of july. general pa tree's had requeste d we speak at a reenlisting ceremony where 300 were reenlisting to stay and fight. there was another group of 80-some who were green cardholders who because they joined the military had an accelerated path to citizenship. i was honored to be there, i was honored to speak to them. in the front row, there was four empty seats, four empty seats with boots on them, men and women -- men who were green cardholders who had lost their lives in combat in the previous 48 hours. men who had been willing to risk their lives and serve our country in order to be citizens of this country. i've never been so deeply moved. madam president, let's give these 11 million people the chance to do the same. i yield. [applause] mr. cornyn: madam president? the presiding officer: the senator from texas. mr. cornyn: madam president, i know that the gang of eight members who were responsible for the basic framework of this legislation have done tremendous work and have advanced ou