there's murder snore there's a lot of joe mccarthy in there. >> joe mccarthy is there.study the mack karate era and see a politician telling a lot of lies and smearing people and not a lot of people standing up to the indecency you hear a little rhyming maybe. ( laughter ) >> stephen: speaking of sense of smell, your main character. >> charlie martyr. >> stephen: he's described as having a keen sense of smell. >> yeah. >> stephen: i understand you also have one. >> my brother and i have keen senses of smell. >> stephen: documented? we haven't gone to the smith center of olfactory gifts if that's what you're referring to. >> stephen: is that a real place? >> no. >> stephen: another lie. it's fiction. >> stephen: yes. but we have a really good sense of smell and it's a curse. >> stephen: how so? well, first of all, america, you need a mint. all of ya. ( laughter ) >> stephen: how do i smell right now? >> did you have cat food for lunch? ( laughter ) what did you have for lunch? >> stephen: frisky buffet. honestly, did you have tuna for lunch? >> i did. yeah. >> stephen: b

mccarthy period. >> that's right and joe is a character in the book.n things was having my fictional characters interact with the real characters. joe's presence loomed large back then and there are low sons for us today about joe mccarthy. you go pack and read about the era. they say history doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes. there's a lot of rhyming. a lot of smearing. a lot of lying, a lot of indecency and not a lot ott people in washington to do up against it! worse then or not? >> the lying. >> the lying was, that's a tough one. because there's a lot of lying today. joe mccarthy was a pretty big liar and smear ed a lot of people. ruined a lot f poem's lives. there were communists trying to inp filtrate the government, but hoover was finding they will. mckcarthy wasn't. there are a lot of lies and smears going on now. i think we have a repetition of a problem. not enough people whon better are calling it out. >> what has it been about politics here in washington, life in washington that has inspired you? >> first, i just thought billion dollar b

joe mccarthy, one month after the fall, the mccarthy hearings, joseph welch saying have you no decency, sir, at long last, prescott bush and others finally followed the lead of margaret chase smith. it was a republican woman, senator from maine, who first laid out the case against mccarthy in 1950, declaration of conscience. she only got six co-signers in 1950 against mccarthy. mccarthy dismissed them as snow white and the six dwarves. sounds like a tweet, doesn't it? [laughter] keep that in mind. mccarthy rode a wave of new media. five million television sets in 1950, 31.5 million in 1954. he rode it up and then it turn thed around and got him. turned around and got him. there's a lesson there. roy cohn wrote a very good book, or at least published -- i don't know if he wrote it -- on mccarthy in '68 in which he said, quite honestly, that he thought mccarthy's fall was a result of the american audiences' inability to sustain interest in hyperbole. that, ultimately, the audience got tired of the show. and i think, i firmly believe that president trump does not think of us as a country

kennedy and senator joe mccarthy, president eisenhower. their parts on what you actually know of them or is it just totally made up? >> i did -- well, the plot is made up. so that part is fictitious. but i did do a lot of research to try to figure out details about them. and you just find out weird stuff. joe mccarthy, for example, i read this biography of him, written in 1952. and when he would drink, and he drank a lot, he would also eat a stick of butter. so that's a detail in the book. and just because i had so many details like that that were true and i didn't think people would believe me, i did sources at the back. which you don't normally do for a book of fiction. but since it's based on actual events and actual people i thought, well, people should know. i didn't make up the butter thing. >> jimmy: you don't make up the butter. >> mccarthy actually had butter as he drank his scotch. >> jimmy: wow. that's pretty crazy. well, there it is. it's "the hellfire club." it is available now. mr. jake tapper, everybody. thank you, jake. we'

joe mccarthy. in the documentary that plays in our heads, we want the mccarthy phenomenon, which began in 1950, to end with edward r.murrow who said the fault of your brewed is not in the stars, but in ourselves. the council for the army says, have you no decent si, sir, at long last. that's the big hollywood moment. >> you know, mccarthy had a 34% approval rating a month after that. >> it was important, but these things rarely map in the way a trig would. like in our own lives, narrative is messier. >> as a historian, what do you think of the phrase, make america great again. >> well, ronald reagan used something like that. he used, let's make america great again of the 1980 campaign poster that says that. the way donald trump used it, let's make america like it was in 1956 again. if you were a boring white man, it was a great time to be alive. if you didn't look like me, it wasn't that great. we were only two years from the brown decision. if you were a woman, your professional opportunities to m

. >> the -- one more point rattling around about about joe mccarthy. joe mccarthy one month after the fall, the mccarthy hearings and joseph welch thing no decent city senture happens -- prescott bush and others finally follow lead of margaret chaste smith it was a republican woman senator from maine who first laid out the case against mccarthy in 1950. declaration of conscience. she only got 6 cosigners -- in 1950 against mccarthy and dismissed them as snow white and the six dwarfs sounds like a tweet doesn't it in keep that in mind mccarthy wrote a wave of new media 5 million television sets in 1950. 31.5 million in 1954 he wrote it up and then it turned around and got him. there's a lesson there. roy cone wrote a very good big or at least published i don't know if he wrote it on mccarthy in '68 in which he said -- quite honestly that he thought mccarthy's fall was as a result was american audience inability to sustain interest in hyperbole that ultimately that the audience got tired of the show. and i think i firmly believe that -- president trump d

in the middle ofhe '50s, joe mccarthy gave a speech saying i hae in my hand names of 205 communists. he didn't tweet it but might as well of, and it lasted about four years. what happenedwas henderstood the media, how wire services worked, he understood raid you, he understood television, he understood how to co the narrative. any of this sound familiar is this. >> woodruff: yeah.en but what ha? the people in congress stood up, margaret committeublican of maine, was one to have the first. they ended upri cen him and they ended up arguing america is most herself when we widen the definition of what we mean by equality, not narrow i >> woodruff: one to have the questions is kit really be coared of today when you have this explosion of social media, twitter, facebook and all three of it, just this non-stop environment of newand conflict? >> well, but imagine if you lived in a pre-print universe, having a newspaper come every week or eves ry month seke a suddenly crowded arena. imagine the 1920s when radio suddenly nationalizes the lture. imagine the early 1950s when television explodes.

look back in this book at times when things have gone astray in the past -- the ku klux klan, joe mccarthy, the vil war -- and in the end, america has come right. is there a chance that with the internet and socl media and the ability of foreign nations to meddle as they have done, this time is different? jon: there is always a chance, of course, but i'm with your countryman and my half countryman churchill who said that the future may kn able, but the past should give us hope. i resist what i continue to think about as the narcissism of the present, as though social d dia is somehow a more nefarious and woanging force than movable type, or radio or television. at every point of quantum leaps of communication in a democratic culture -- lowercase d -- we have had fears and anxieties th. would lead to demagogue it is true that television, both the social-media world and the reality tv world -- remember, trump was known to most americans as the host of "the apprentice" more than anything else -- did givee us demagogue the founders feared. that is unquestionable.t e constitution acknowledges o

joe mccarthy is leading the terrorist -- the red hunting charge.region, 50 years ago, we had functional apartheid in the south. we do get better. it requires the protest. it requires the resistance. it requires these conversations. >> jon says -- his book is infused with optimism. america has been through so much. when i'm out there as a reporter and you meet people, people are going about their days. they're not fighting with each other every moment. this country moves forward. >> we're going to get through it. we don't -- one of the things that your book struck me on is, are we moving fast or slow in our evolution? >> much faster. i think information technology has transformed the speed. i do think the one thing that you say, which is so resonating is the american people have a soul. >> we will get through it. there will be damage. if you look at ourhow bad the d be. >> every moment in here is infused with race. every moment, every rough moment in some ways, it's some version of race. >> unquestionably. it's our original sin. the constitution its

it's state out of roy cohn, joe mccarthy's chief counsel's playbook, which is you just fight all thee. if you take a punch, you hit back twice as hard. that's certainly what mayor giuliani's doing out there. they're fighting a war on cable and in social media to get the base girded for battle. i think that's almost -- i would bet a lot of money that's what they're doing. they are pre-trying to delegitimize whatever director mueller may come up with. remember, there are also two tracks here. there's the criminal justice track that you've been discussing, and then there's the political track. gerald ford once said, high crime and misdemeanors is whatever a majority of house and senate decide it is at any given moment. so i hear a lot -- i'm sure you do too -- people who are despairing right now saying, well, congress isn't standing up. congress, i think, ultimately will, but it does take a long time. you know, the fabled moment where barry goldwater and hugh scott and john rhodes go down to the white house to tell tell nixon he doesn't have the support anymore, that was august 7, 1974,

> for those of you who don't know, he made his reputation as mainly as being chief counsel for joe mccarthy -- but he was -- yes, he was a reprehensible, vile person. i mean, if you were a friend of his, he was very loyal and loving. but you wouldn't want to be on the wrong side of roy cohn. and certainly, how he's really known now is as trump's lawyer and mentor. he sort of -- that's what that article -- >> jimmy: right. >> which is a great article by frank rich, which talks about roy cohn and how he ushered trump into new york society. and, you know, the tactics of never surrender, never admit defeat, you know. even when you lose, declare victory. counterattack and hit them ten times harder. >> jimmy: harder. >> and you know -- >> jimmy: control the press. >> and, yes, yes, control the press. and when all else fails, lie. [ light laughter ] and certainly, he, trump has learned those tactics. >> jimmy: yeah. >> from the roy cohn playbook. oh -- >> didn't he have his lawyers fake a heart attack? >> yes, yes. he was on one of the many ethics violations and he was in danger of being disbarred

joe mccarthy, when he drank, and he drank a lot. he drank scotch, soda.to know i didn't make that up. >> to ward off a hangover. >> yes. that didn't make any sense to me. >> too bad that doesn't work. >> he would know. >> it really makes a difference in what comes through in the writing. that's all i'll say. you couldn't be less objective. >> let me ask you the question, you have a day job, how did you do this? >> i've been working on it for years. you guys just found out about it for a few weeks ago. you know how it is when you can steal 15 minutes or work or an hour after you put the kids to bed, the time adds up. it was a lot of hard work just over a long period of time. >> awesome. it is well read. it is already well received. good for you, brother. >> great to have you, jake, congratulations. >>> what happened to four u.s. soldiers killed in an ambush in nigeria months ago. we have some more answers now. the pentagon is about to release a report so we have a live report for you next. support. number one sleep doctor recommended remfresh-your nightly

joe mccarthy is a character in the book. roy cohn, and that debate, are we becoming that which we loathe, that which we oppose, is one that played out in the '50s and we're going through it again. >> all right. hey, jake, we -- unfortunately, the mike pence news shortened this segment a bit. i tell you what we'd like to do, a little bit of housekeeping. we're already over. it's not the first time, won't be the last time, we apologize, but we'd love to do a post-tape with you right after this, put it up online or maybe put it up on tomorrow's show. thank you so much. we greatly appreciate it. thank you, guys, for watching us. the book is hellfire's club, jake tapper. >> stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks so much, mika, thanks, joe. hi there, i'm stephanie ruhle. this morning, we've got a lot to cover. starting with back on u.s. soil. the president greets three american detainees freed from north korea, expressing renewed hope that this is just the beginning. >> i'm very honored to help the three folks.

because the figure he's most like in many ways is joe mccarthy.rthy, senator from wisconsin, who led the communist hunts in the early 1950s. roy cohen who was also both mccarthy's lawyer and donald trump's lawyer. sometimes god just gives you these common denominators. he said that he thought mccarthy fell, not least because he demanded too much attention and he wore out his welcome. and i think that's not an impossible outcome here. >> jon meacham, mike murphy, always good to have you. while you were speaking, mr. meacham, some breaking news coming in. apparently one of the president's attorneys, emmitt flood -- emmitt flood -- was part of that highly classified meeting that just wrapped up there at the justice department. according to a source, according to sources, the lawyer there came to the justice department for the meeting. at this point it is not known how long he stayed but he was in fact in the room. we'll be right back. looking for advantages. the smart ones look to fidelity to find them. we give you research and data-visualization too

remember joe mccarthy, fifth amendment communist? if you take the fifth amendment, you're a commie. >> and we have to begin the conversation -- >> not that he was right, of course, but that was the slur. >> with we have to begin this conversation as good lawyers do by saying everybody is entitled to the fifth amendment, and a judge will instruct a jury no adverse inference from it. >> yeah. there is. >> but the american public knows that it is -- for the president of the united states to take the fifth amendment is a staggering admission of criminal liability. it would be earth shattering for the president of the united states. >> would you advise trump to take the fifth if you were back practicing? >> i would advise him not to take the fifth amendment. >> would you advise him not to tell the truth? >> and i would advise him to tell the truth. >> even if it brings him down on russia and the rest of it? >> well, he presumably thinks he is innocent of any wrongdoing. >> okay. mr. president, did you ever talk to anybody in your campaign

i just say whea candidate wins -- i mean, joe mccarthy spawned a whole generation of imitators and peoplell running for state representative in massachusetts today who say again and again because john kennedy said again an but it should be no surprise it's a race to the bottom. i mean, it was donald trump who announced that the president of the united states was born in kenya an insisted that was true. it was donald trump who told lies and paid no pce for it and, in fact, was rewarded. so it is imitative and derivative. what's interesting is that the two other candidates in west virginia, evan jenkins and congressman patrick morrissey, the attorney general, are hitting each other the head with two by fours saying you're not deserving of trump'srt sup you're not a real trumpian and blankenship, as david's right, spent a year in jail, $259,000 fine for 20 miners dying on his watch and violation of nine safety standards and law, he was leading until last week. i don't know what's going to haen in the primary. >> you know watts interesting, show, a lot of the fashionableai cas are so ugly, ye

it takes place during the 1950s when the intimidating joe mccarthy was senator and carrying out his communistout the new book. >> jake, your book is set in the mccarthy era. it's easy to make comparisons, you know, from then to now. you actually started this before this administration was even kind of a glimmer in anyone's eye, right? >> yeah, i just thought it was such an interesting era on the veneer, it's romantic, seems pleasant. the eisenhower years. you just scratch a little bit beneath the surface, there are literally communists infiltrating the government, the rise of mccarthyism, the atomic race, the country still segregated, it's still a very sexist society. so it looks pleasant, but it's really, there's this undertone of menace throughout the 1950s. all of that was cooking long before donald trump came down that escalator, but then once he became this candidate and, you know, they say history doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes. there's a lot of rhyming when you read about the 1950s and look at president trump and 2018. >> explain what the book is about, "a," it's fiction which i'

a state paper saying that african-americans were genetically incapable of self-government, or joe mccarthy, who chased after innocent people, using the media of the day to create this hysterical feeling. these were moments that were incredibly difficultyet, we now have a country, even now for all ar problems, that, b large, we can be proud of. >> woodruff: so take us inside one of those moments. i mean, the clue ku klux klan rising in the 1920s and '30s. how did the coury grapple with that and get through it? >> there are parallels because there was a great deal of anxiety about immigrants, there was a great de anxiety about global affairs becae we had come out of the first world war, and working class, middle class white movement refounded the ku klux klan. there were senators, governors who were explicitly members of the klan. how did we get through it calvin coolidge limited immigration so it took some oxygen out of the fair, but also a free press said this is not who we are, harding and coolidge said this is not who we are, t d, ultimately, our better angels prevailedast briefly. >> wo

joe mccarthy, my skipper, was asked by wing commander gibson, would he join this special squadron thatsiness. now, we'd been used to flying 10,000,12,00015,000, if you were lucky maybe occasionally 20,000 feet. in the dark, because you stayed out of the moon, flying in those days. and seeing nothing until you got the target area, and you saw all the guns that you've got to go through before you came back home. all the anti—aircraft fire bursting around about. i found that that didn't worry me at all. my concentration was on the bomb sight and the target, and my object was to get our bombs as close as i could to the target, and that was it. giving instructions to the pilot to line the aircraft up correctly. apart from that, i'd no idea what was going on outside, no idea at all. that's the job i was there for, and my concentration was entirely on that. and then the bomb was gone, there was straight and level flight for a while, until a camera was operated and took a picture of where your bomb was dropped. so no point in saying you hit the target when you lobbed it out somewhere in the mi

joe mccarthy is leading the terrorist -- red hunting charge.years ago we had functional apartheid in the south. we do get better, but it requires the protest, it requires the resistance. it requires these conversations. >> his book is infused with optimism. i think that comes through in the book. america has been through so much. when i'm out there was a reporter and you're meeting people. people are going out their days, they're not fighting with each other every momt. this country moves forward. >> we're going to get through it, but we don't -- one of the things that your book struck me on is are we moving fast or slow in our evolution? >> we're moving much faster. i mean, i think, i think -- you know, information technology has transformed the speed. but i do think the one thing that you say, which is so resonant and true -- firster of all, america does have a soul. and second, the american people are not distracted in the same way by the things we talk about every sunday. >> and we have to remember, we will get through it but there will be

joe mccarthy -- in the documentary that plays in our ands, this began in 1950 ends when he is attacked-- joseph welch says have you no decency? at long last -- that is the big hollywood moment. host: mccarthy had a 34% approval rating one month after that. guest: he was censured and it was important, but these things in the way a twig would. in our own lives, narrative is messier than we make it out to be. host: as a historian, what do you think of the phrase make america great again? reagan used ronald something like that. he used let's make america great again on a 1980 campaign poster. the way donald trump used it, what i think he meant was let's like 1956 again. if you are a white, heterosexual, southern man, it was great. for other people, it was not great. we were two years away from the brown decision, if you are a woman, your professional opportunities were quite subscribed. jim crow was prevalent by law and by custom. i think it is a nostalgic vision of a past that existed for a certain number of people but did not exist for as many people as they think it did. nostalgia is a

it wouldn't have felt that way in the early 1950s when joe mccarthy was running roughshod over the american culture. it wouldn't have felt that way. if we had been talking 50 years ago on the 17th of may, 1968, 46 american servicemen would have died in vietnam today, and average of 46 american servicemen died every day in 1968. we have been in terrible spots before. what we have to figure out is how did we get out of them and what lessons can we take to get through this? >> in the book you talk about our best moments coming when voices far from power, when they force the powerful to take notice. in our current climate, who are those voices as you see them? >> i think you see the students at parkland, in parkland, florida. i think you see the hundreds of thou thousands of people who have marched on different occasions. you think you hear it every day. you do this all day long. you talk to people who do not believe that the trump administration is truest to the best of american traditions. and what has to happen is, if you believe that -- and many, many people do -- the case has to be made. y

coughling and father and joe mccarthy and george wallace were problematic figures, that they were more on the fringes of our politics. one of our major political parties did not hold the net tight enough and it went through a demagogue and someone from markedly unsuited for the job. but it did not happen by chance. it happened because of developments in the republican party for the last two or three decades in the very anti-system challenging legitimacy of the political opposition, denying the existence of facts and truth, being scornful of compromise. it is something we all wrote about a couple of decades ago. this has been happening and underway. to assumebe foolish everything will work out just fine. i hope it does, but i believe the battle is real to protect our democracy. solved by the 2018 midterm elections or the 2020 election. problems that go makeup andoeconomic a vision of our society, and its links to the political party system. we are going to have a hard time dealing with it. is if in somey ways the problematic position we are in today is a consequence of failures of polit

hugh elong and father coughlin and joe mccarthy and george were problematic figures, but they were more on the fringes of our politics. major political parties did not hold the net, apt they left through -- le through. who is somehow remarkably unsuited for the job, but it did not happen by chance. it happened because of developments in the republican party through the last two or three decades, and the very kind of anti-system, challenging the legitimacy of the political opposition, denying the existence of facts and truth, being scornful of compromise is something we all wrote about a couple of decades ago. this has been happening and underway, and it would be foolish to assume everything will work out just fine. believet does, but i the battle israel to protect -- to protectis real our democracy, and it won't be by the 2018 midterm elections or the 2020 elections. problems that go to the socioeconomic makeup and division of our society and its links to the political party system. we are going to have a hard, hard time dealing with it. if in some say is, ways, the problematic position

joe mccarthy is a character in the book.at debate, are we becoming that which we loathe, that which we oppose, is one that played out in the '50s and we're going through it again. >> all right. hey, jake, we -- unfortunately, the mike pence news shortened this segment a bit. i tell you what we'd like to do, a little bit of housekeeping. we're already over. it's not the first time, won't be the last time, we apologize, but we'd love to do a post-tape with you right after this, put it up online or maybe put it up on tomorrow's show. thank you so much. we greatly appreciate it. thank you, guys, for watching us. the book is hellfire's club, jake tapper. >> stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks so much, mika, thanks, joe. hi there, i'm stephanie ruhle. this morning, we've got a

> contessa, what do you think >> reporter: well, i mean, ilea kazan testified during the whole joe mccarthye blacklisted part so he was a pivotal figure right then and really seen as an iconic film director in hollywood. i'm not a psychologist i did study psychology, but -- >> in hindsight -- >> reporter: and also -- >> yeah, wrongfully, there are some people who have stood up for him after his death, ilea kazan -- >> do you think the expectation, the reason he's bringing the books, even though they have this plan, is because he thinks he's going to be possibly -- >> reading material? >> well, no. i mean, that's what i'm wondering. i will say, by the way, covering many trials -- >> there may be down time. >> -- people bring books because there is a lot of down time. >> he obviously put a lot of thought into which books -- probably not a good idea to be bringing a book about roman polanski, obviously. i mean, $1 million to harvey weinstein is not -- i mean, it's a lot of money, but that's why i asked -- >> it's easily accessible. >> that's why i asked what the charges are, contessa. is he lo

as steve and john were referring to joe mccarthy, there is a lot of talk among republicans on capitolust like bobby kennedy in the 1950s and '60s was attracted to mccarthy then became a progressive liberal ideologue and leader and changed his politics, there is a hope among some republicans that maybe this trump moment is a ploints point and the party can survive, others are more apocalyptic and negative that the party is under the grip of president trump politically, emotionally that they won't be able to move on from this moment and i think the midterms if anything will be a time -- it is a juncture in the road where the party will have to choose, is this how we go forward or not? as they barrel towards the midterm, they don't feel in control of the party's future. >> speaking of, the president just tweeted about west virginia. >> he has weighed into the race in west virginia and he said that don blankenship cannot win the general election in your state and he's urging people in west virginia to vote for the two other gop candidate fwls that state and, look, this is a real high-stak

even joe mccarthy. is a godfather of this strategy. he pointed out in a memoir that even after the mccarthy hearings, after the have you no decency, sir, after the censure of mccarthy by the senate, 35% of the country was still with mccarthy. 45% of the country right now, more or less, is with trump. i just think that this ferocity of the batting, the ferocity of what giuliani is doing. the ferocity of the tweets by president trump, that attempt to delegitimize the investigation, all suggest that they are fearful ultimately of what that truth will be. >> jim, the ferocity that jon is talking about, is the trees. do you think we're missing the forest is that bob mueller isn't just an iceberg, but an underground village. we have no idea what is going on down there, and it could very well be that he's farther along and more people ensnared in his net and there may be some casualties along the way who don't deserve to be outed by nunes, and the republican lemmings in the house. >> think michael would know this better than anyone. if you th

second special counsel, he is joining us with former assistance prosecutor andrew mccarthy, and attorneys victoria tensing and joe degeneva. and president trump standing firm on north korea. saying that summit could be delayed for canceled if the regime does not meet conditions for the summit. we take that up, retired four-star general jack keane joining us. imagine. fighting for amnesty, california lawmakers, want to give illegal immigrants their billions of dollars in free health care. we talk about need to protect our borders and ourself ronty. -- our sovereignty. and our top story, president trump addressing report that there were multiple government spies gathering intelligence on his 2016 presidential campaign, fbi may not have been only obama agency involved. >> if they had spies in my campaign that would be a disgrace to this country, that would be one of the biggest insults this anyone has seen and very illegal aside everything from else, make probably every political event ever look like small potty pa pay on potato. lou: i meeting has been set for this thursday. those in ascend dense will include, hous

senator markey, senator mccain, senator hatch, house majority leader kevin mccarthy, congressman joe kennedy, congresswoman elaine stepper next, david serio, the archivist of the united states, secretary of the interior, jack schlossberg, president kennedy's .randson, elaine jone where is elaine? there is elaine jones. she has worked with the kennedy library from the very beginning in setting up the profile in courage award. she has been a distinguished member of that committee. we all do on that committee whatever you lane musician, famous cellist was also on that committee. in a moment, stephen will talk about the various initiatives promoted, promulgated, and pushed by the u.s. centennial commission. i want to mention one and only knows about that and it is the profile encourage award that we give every year at the annual dinner in may in boston. was year, the awardee president obama. , veryn the past bipartisan. four winners included president gerald ford, congressman john lewis, senator mccain, and many, many others. kennedy's president profile in courage legacy, we received an

to go back to joe welsh during the mccarthy hearings, have these people no decency left? we're talking about trump trying to out an informant that could endanger lives. i would hope the good people still work in the white house and government don't want that on their conscience. when they he will speak up and say we've crossed a line and gone too far. >> this is part of a broader strategy really. for awhile when ty cobb was working there and john dowd, of course we're cooperating and the president will be clear and we're looking forward to being wrapped up. they seemed to have dropped that in favor of total war. >> it does seem that way. this is a perfect example of it. the extent to which they may be willing to burn down the building in order to accomplish their ends because not only will this person and people who have worked with this person be exposed but who would come forward tomorrow and say to the government, you know, i normally would call the fbi but look what happened to the last guy. >> he was outed revealed the moment his name was turned over to congress, it

to go back to joe welch during the mccarthy hearings, have these people no decency left? .ut trump trying to out an informant that could endanger lives. i would hope the good people still working in the white house and government don't want that on their conscience and when will that say we've crossed a line and gone too star in. >> to go back to the first thing you said, it strikes me that this is part of a broader strategy. for a while when ty cobb was working there and john dowd there was a kind of yeah, of course we're cooperating, the president will be cleared and we look forward to this being wrapped up. they seemed to have dropped that in favor of total war. >> it does seem that way and this is a perfect example of it and the exsetent to which they y be willing to burn down the buildings. not only will this person be exposed but who would come forward tomorrow and say to the government i normally would call the fbi but look what happened to the last guy? he was outed, he was revealed the moment his name was turned over to congress it was in the public eye in ten minu

second special counsel, he is joining us with former assistance prosecutor andrew mccarthy, and attorneys victoria tensing and joend president trump standing

joe alluded to, has some explaining to do. even obama intel chiefs are now contradicting him. andy mccarthy next. national, where i can choose any available upgrade in the aisle - without starting any conversations- -or paying any upcharges. what can i say? control suits me. go national. go like a pro. >> laura: to a former intel officials are contradicting a key claim made by former cia director john brennan and the russia investigation. remember brennan testified before congress last year that the salacious russian dossier was not used in that official intel community assessment on russian interference in the 2016 election. but the dossier was used in the assessment, at least according to a report of a classified letter sent by former nsa director mike rogers to congres congress. former director of national intel jim klapper also told cnn that the dossier was used in the assessment. let's discuss this and other developments with former federal prosecutor andy mccarthy, whose peace and national review today is titled "retracting a retraction: fusion simpson stands by testimony that fbi had a spy