, but joe reed will say we have 25 percent of african-americans reflecting the population of the state. so those are two examples of what went on behind the scenes. and we were told to don't get into a lot of the details about how it happened. you can read the book but those are two examples that sticks out because those are two examples that were referenced on the panel. >> that one occasion mentioned about howell heflin and the two black federal judges, that was a situation where howell heflin met with the black state leadership in a hotel room behind closed doors. as a matter of fact, howell heflin and a member of this audience, i won't name who, but a member of this audience with the only two white people in that room. and they talked about it and they said, judge devlin, we have supported you and we think that one of the things that the state needs or this country needs is more black federal elected officials. do you agree. and he suggested by the way, he was running. let me assure you, stealth leadership that i'm talking about, stealth politics, it wasn't always noble. it was oft