and joe stork, deputy director of the middle east and north africa division at human rights watch.tlemen, we thank you both for being here. ambassador burns, to you first. what's your reaction to what the president said? >> judy, i think the president had to say what he said today, given the horrish, brutal attacks by the egyptian military on their own people, the president had to condemn them. he had to distance the united states from the military government in egypt, which he did. he had to canc thel very important joint exercise. as you mentioned, what he did not do is sever all relations with the government and he did not announce the united states would cut off aid. here is the dilemma for the obama administration. on the one hand, we have to be identified with human rights. that's the kind of country we are. that's our history. we have to stand up and condemn a government like the government in cairo when they act in this reprehensible manner. on the other hand, the united states has very important security and economic interests in egypt. it's the keystone country of the mid

and for a humanitarian perspective we're joined by joe stork from the human rights watch. thank you both. and mark, i want to start with you. give us a sense on the broader picture of what our relationship has been with syria up to this point. they have been labeled a state sponsor of terrorism since the '70s. we have a lot of conflict here. what is the predicate for what might be this escalating conflict with the u.s. versus syria? >> well, putting this into context, hafez al assad, bashar al assad's father, had always been a protagonist against israel and against the united states in the middle east. it has been the number one ally of iran in the arab world. the most important ally of russia in the middle east. and an exporter of oil to china and the number one purchaser of arms from russia. so syria has been in a league by itself. as also the first arab country to try to build an atomic weapon and has the largest cachet of chemical weapons in the world besides the united states and russia, the largest cachet of chemical weapons. >> thinking about that and the use of the