during that time, trump's attorney joe tacopina challenged e.ts of being raped in the department store in the 1990s. and under oath carrolled a knocked that some of her facts here, that they were difficult to understand. they didn't make sense. they were odd. but she never strayed from her allegations that she was raped in the department store dressing room. one of the facts that she said she understood was odd was that she doesn't recall there being anyone on the sixth floor when this alleged attack took place. but the most intense moments during the cross-examination came when tacopina asked carroll repeatedly why she didn't scream if she was battling in that dressing room for her life. and carroll told him, i'm not a screamer. i'm telling you, he raped me whether i screamed or not. he asked details, asking how she could have pushed trump off of her. he weighs more than twice what she does while wearing 4-inch heel, holding on to her handbag and not ripping her tights. this was a fairly tense moment in the investigation. she stuck to her story

from trump's lawyer, joe tacopina, who tried to chip away at her credibility and compared almost everywhat carroll testified to, to her past accounts of the alleged rape, looking for inconsistencies. while trump has denied the allegations, you likely won't hear it from him, inside the courtroom. today is the deadline for trump's attorneys to let the judge know whether he will testify in person. we're still waiting to hear that decision joining me now are katie phang, msnbc legal analyst and host of the katie phang show, and adam reese, msnbc news producer who was in the courtroom today give us your recap, what did you see and hear i heard the testimony was pretty dramatic, the back and forth with joe tacopina and e. jean carroll. >> it really was, joy, but there really was no smoking gun, no bombshell. she kept to her story. she was really steadfast joe tacopina tried to cut through, tried to get her on inconsistencies, whether she remembered the day, the date, the time of the alleged rape how she may have changed her story from when she spoke to "the washington post" and "the new york

one attorney joe tacopina detailing what we can expect. listen. >> joe: he'll be in the courtroom about three or four rows back, what is extraordinary is that tomorrow is actually happening. it is surreal and shocking. we don't know other than we will plea very loudly not guilty before the judge and go from there. brooke trump is expected to arrive at 11:00 a.m. today, streets are expected to close around 1 p.m., an hour before the arraignment is set to begin. trump could finish up by 2:30 p.m. the former president hired an additional attorney, todd blanche who defended trump campaign chairman paul manafort. blanche defended manafort from a case by cy vance. the former president says alvin bragg should indict himself. security has been stepped up to prepare for today's indictment. >> todd: the question becomes what is the trump legal strategy going forward? one of trump's impeachment attorneys had an interesting analysis, take a listen to that. >> three motions they should file after arraignment, one is motion to dismiss on statute much lim

then joe tacopina and susan necklace . it's interesting. you know, he for all that, he says he's one way then when push comes to shove wants to go the other. so margaret, you know, we know that alvin bragg is supposed to speak tomorrow and then trump is supposed to not speak and then trump is going to get on a plane and go to mar-a-lago. and he's supposed to speak, so we'll see if it plays out this way. but we do. you know, he will speak at least in mar-a-lago, but he was very quiet today. outside is true. social his web. you know his website he did not. he didn't approach the cameras. he didn't say anything which is unusual. it's also advised. i mean, he's about to be the first president to before formally indicted tomorrow. i mean, he he shouldn't say anything that could sway a potential jury that would anger the judge before he shows up in front of the judge, and he's going to have plenty of time in front of the cameras when he gets back to mar-a-lago make no mistake. that speech talk rally is going to be his beginning of his political r

redirect, where he gets an opportunity to clarify with her a number of things she talked about with joe tacopinadonald trump coming and testifying in person? i know the judge was trying to get an answer out of tacopina, did he get one? >> not in public. if joe tacopina provided that answers, the journalists aren't aware of it. the jury isn't either. my bet would be donald trump does not show up. but trump being trump, he's trying to have the upper hand by refusing to provide a straight answer. >> we were talking about the interview she did with anderson cooper, she said rape can have different connotations, some people can have a rape fantasy, and donald trump was asked about this in his video deposition, which can be played in court. and when he was talking about it, if you read it one way, it seems to imply that he was accepting her version of events saying if she said it was that way, then she said it was sexy. was that as damming as it reads on first glance or was he more accepting of what she was -- just a story she was telling, if she's told that story that way on cnn, then that's how she

um adding him to the team does speak to the level of how they're approaching this because joe tacopina, there's been some internal divisions within the legal team over whether or not he was the best person to take this to trial. i asked another trump attorney about this last week, and he kind of basically said i'm not going to talk about joe tacopina. no kind of endorsement europe facing serious legal charges, like the attorney who talks on tv is not necessarily the attorney you actually want in the courtroom necklace has been a big part of that. i mean, she has been the one as paula noted, there has been signing things. she is seen as a very strong attorney here, but this is i mean, this could go on for several months. you know, they don't believe that it has strong legal merits. when i say they i mean trump's legal team, but they still believe it could go on for months. obviously, trump has been threatening the judge that he are criticizing the judge. i should say that he's going to appear before tomorrow. i think it still remains to be seen what that looks like, but watching him go

during that time, tough to tierney joe tacopina shaolin just e.aved in the department store. and under oath carroll acknowledged that she said some of her factories she said that they, were you know, difficult to understand and i did make sense they were odd. but she never strayed from her allegations that she was raped in the department store a dressing room. when the facts as she said she understood was odd was that she doesn't recall there being anyone on the sixth floor when this alleged attack took place. but the most intense moments during the cross-examination came when tacopina asked carroll repeatedly why she didn't scream as she was battling in that dressing room for her life. and told carroll him i'm not a screamer. she said, i'm telling you, he raped me, whether i screamed or not. now tacopina's hotel and some other ticket details, asking how she could've pushed trump off of her. he weighs more than twice what she does, while wearing four inch high heels, holding on to a handbag, and not ripping any of her tights? this was a fairly int

. >> the latest reaction from trump's attorney, joe tacopina. analysis from our powerhouse roundtable. fresh challenge -- >> america needs to move in a different direction. >> asa hutchinson calls for new gop voices in 2024. >> are you running. >> jon karl's interview. his big announcement ahead. >> i think society needs time to adapt. we've got to put this technology out into the world in a gradual way. >> artificial intelligence at warp speed, tech pioneer eric schmidt. >> announcer: from abc news, it's "this week." here now, george stephanopoulos. >> good morning and welcome to "this week." how many times in the last decade or so have we described a political development as historic, unprecedented, never seen before? i've lost count. this week, the norm-wusting impact of donald trump on our body politic may have reached its peak. on thursday, we learned he's the first president ever to face criminal indictment. as we come on the air this morning, that twice-impeached former president, also under criminal investigation for trying to overturn a

joe tacopina has been appearing a lot on television, including ari's show, is that helpful? i know he wants a bulldog, but is that helpful? >> well, it is important for the president to influence public opinion and get their version of the story out, especially because there's such a -- such a false i didn't feel equivalence, because the district attorney, yes, they will have the document of the indictment out there, and that will get coverage, and, yes, you'll hear alvin bragg once give a press conference but after that, as neil and i note, you're sort of silent, other than what you say in court. whereas, joe tacopina, susan necheles, even donald trump, are very vociferous about their version. and they keep repeating it and so, that's something when in special counsel mueller's investigation, everyone sort of talked about that sort of differential from complete lockdown from the prosecution. and the defense does get to speak. they're supposed to stay within court rules, but sometimes, they don't, as we've seen i think that joe tacopina does actually have that function of ge

joe tacopina attempted t undermine e.tory, citing her failure to remember the exact date, which now believes occurred in the spring of 1996, barr previousl said it could've been 1995 o 1996 and one answer to trump lawyers, she said, quote i wish t heaven we could give you a date i wish we could give you a date there is also this exchange fo trump's lawyer questioned wh e. jean carroll never screamed tacopina said even though yo understood you are in th middle of the supposed t battle, you never screamed a donald trump or scream for help? carol or spawns, i'm not a screamer here is the thing, i was too much in a panic attack screech tacopina says when you'r fighting and being sexuall assaulted and rape, because yo know screamer, as you described, you wouldn't scream? carol says, i'm not a screamer you cannot beat up on me for not screaming. tacopina says, i'm not beating up on you. i am asking you questions, mis carroll. no, women who come forward whe the reason they don't come forward because they are alway asked why didn

carroll was consistent and composed, losing patience only when joe tacopina asked her why she didn'team during the alleged attack. "you were in this scream for help, he asked her. >> i'm not a screamer, koenig responded. coastal people ask why did you scream. some women scream. some don't. he hell me whether i screened or he hell me whether i screened or not. saying it's not about the money, it's about getting my name back. and getting attention for being raped, she said is hard. carroll's testimony is not over, there's no court here. carroll returns on monday to continue cross-examination. >> whit: aaron katersky reporting, thank you. now to that deadly rock throwing spree in colorado that killed 18-year-olds appearing before a judge. court documents alleging chilling new details including one of the three teens took a photo of the victim's car is a momento. here is abc's mola lenghi. >> new details emerging as three teens face first-degree murder charges in the deadly rock throwing spree outside denver, colorado. according to arrest affidavit, suspect mitch karol-chik and telling p

i'll ask joe tacopina about it. in a private transaction in 2016 i used my own personal funds to facilitate a payment of $130,000 to miss stephanie clifford, aka stormy daniels. neither the trump organization or trump campaign was a party to the transaction. the payment was lawful and was not a campaign contribution or campaign expenditure by anyone. now cohen's attorney echoed those very same remarks in a letter to the sec. february of 2018, keep that date in your mind, in a private transaction in 2016 before the u.s. presidential election, mr. cohen used his own personal funds to facilitate a payment of $130,000 to miss stephanie clifford. neither the trump campaign was a party to the transaction. notice the date. 2018, february. alvin bragg refers to payments from 2017. again, this is a pathetically weak case, based on an ex-con and admitted liar, and everyone knows it, maybe except alvin bragg. a grand jury, they can indict a ham sandwich. alvin bragg has one of the lowest conviction rates in the entire country,

let's now bring in joe tacopina, attorney for former president trump, was in the courtroom today. e, thanks for joining us. >> thanks for having me, bret. >> bret: so, first of all, your take on the proceedings today and what happened inside that courtroom? >> you know, overall, pretty standard operating procedure except the guy sitting next to was the president of the united states as opposed to a typicalll defendant. there was an arraignment. he pled not guilty. he uttered the words himself the president which i thought was a good thing for him him to do and he wanted to do that we had some discussion over, you know, logistics of a protective order on some of the documents and a whole host of other things. we set a schedule date for motions and, you know, now we proceed. but, you know, obviously that was the only part. once we were inside the well of the courtroom, that was probably the only part of the day that was even remotely normal, if you can say that. >> bret: right. yeah. the surreal nature of the day. i want to talk to you about the president's demeanor. but what about w

face don't face rather as he answered the courtroom, flanked by his legal team, susan necklace joe tacopina and blanche, a well known white collar criminal defense attorney who had just joined trump's defense team yesterday. as you can see behind us, there is a large group of people outside of the courthouse, anti trump protesters and trump supporters . they are clearly rallied here they are chanting. they have signs. however, i would say the mood so far has been palm. we did see a physical altercation earlier this afternoon between a man and a woman before the most part again, nothing major over here outside of the courthouse as you can see that a lot of security officers, police officers rather police officers . the presence here has been ramped up over the last few days. there are metal barricades are over here and again. we don't know if mr trump will deliver comments after his historic arrangement. we do know that he will be returning tomorrow. lago later on tonight to deliver remarks. andre madeline river reporting for us live outside the chaotic scene there at the courthouse where pr

this is todd blanch and joe tacopina. i am not sure if we have a camera there. >> we can see it. >> i am trying. hold on one moment. . we are trying to listen in. joe tacopina, attorney for former president trump, is speaking to a gaggle of reporters, trying to get our microphone there. >> it's not a good day. it's not a bad day. i don't expect -- i don't expect this to happen. in this country, you don't expect this to happen to somebody who was the president of the united states. and on the one hand, on the one hand, there is not really any surprises. i know there was a lot of talk over the past several weeks, the past several days about what is in this indictment and what's going to be there that we don't know. there must be something besides what we have been talking about for the past four, five years. there wasn't. there was nothing. the indictment itself is boilerplate. it doesn't allege any federal crime, any state crime violated. it doesn't allege what the false statement is. and it's really disappointing. it's sa

you're talking to joe tacopina. a moment before i was talking to james truste earlier tonight, and you mentioned that , do you challenge the venue on new york? >> voted for joe bimbettey mo more than 80%. >> is that viable to you? get a judge convinced of that? i don't know. do you challenge the statute oty limitationous? maybe. but we trustee said was after there was so much leaked o on behalf of the indictment, he was, quote, happily surprise with the content that he found e today. nt tand there wasn't much of a surprise, according to him, what happens if this gets to trial? you know, tacopina is arguing that. he says it'l what happel never go before a jury. maybe he's right. but how do you prevent that? what do you do? how do you take it on trust? he says it's not a terribley sad thing to hav ie a star witness like michael cohen.ichael like michael cohen.ichael in the credibility ofin the process with a guy like a gy cohen on the stand l. in fact, he was on another network tonight, still talking again. weain. con

they want to judge to make warnings they talked about defense attorney joe tacopina and his weighs years ago with stormy daniels and how that could pose a conflict of sinterest as we move towards a trial he wouldn't be able to cross examine her. whether or not he can stay on the defense team is another thing. todd blanch stood up and spoke and said, the people just talked for ten minutes. we haven't seen discovery. he talk about michael cohen speaking on the steps of the courthouse every time he meets with prosecutor he is announces all the charges. he said that donald trump has responded forcefully, yes, he has, but he's upset, frustrated. he believes this is an injustice. the judge responded by saying we're taking this rhetoric be the language that former president trump is using seriously. blanch responded, there is free speech the investigator who worked on the first case, called the so-called zombie case, wrote a book, and he speaks publicly cohen continued to be on every news show. and mr. trump is running for election and we just received a copy of the indictment minutes ago, and

why didn't you react at that i as a man, joe tacopina, thinks that you should've reacted under these circumstances? i will tell you steph, as prosecutor back in the 80s, handled rape and sexual assaul cases. extraordinary difficult case and i admire the caree prosecutors who dedicate themselves to working cases an helping victims like e. jean carroll. but in every, case of th victim is called a liar, often falsely. i understand the sixth amendment right to cross examine your accuser, but bo it feels like we should do better by victims. >> here's what i need you to explain for us this case. for a lot of people watching there going, i do not exactl understand this is not a criminal rap case, it is civil. so what are the consequences >> this is about a money judgment, and more than that staff, i have to believe tha it is about e. jean carrol getting her day in court telling your story, and having the vindication of a jur saying, you are telling th truth, donald trump - >> assuming she. is >> and let's talk about the damages that you suffered in your life. your financial prospects, an le

what does this mean for joe tacopina? i'm not sure. but usually in a case like this. you only want one quarterback at a time in football, and i think the same would go here for criminal defense, so they're both alpha is they're both quarterbacks. so in my view, it's going to be hard for tacopina to be a sort of second cedar here and we should have a is still on the legal team. we are being told by sources. they say it's not being sidelined, but i didn't tell some internally. view it, david just on the what bill and denard noting there about how historic this is going to be and what we're looking at. yes it's actually going to be pretty quick trip for trump in and into new york tonight out by tomorrow night, but the idea that a former president is getting booked tomorrow. turning himself over to authorities is so significant it is just to give our audience a sense of place of where we are, since this case is dealing with a money agreement, alleged money arrangement that occurred just before the 2016 election to our left. we're just half a block where hillary clinton wa

today, that guy, joe tacopina, was the trump lawyer in the courtroom lawyering. cross-examined a woman who says that donald trump raped her. tacopina intensely pressed e. jean carroll repeatedly, asking why she did not scream for help during the assault. she said, quote, i'm not a screamer. you can't beat up on me for not screaming. >> he responded, quote, i'm not beating up on you, i'm asking questions. women who come forward, one of the reason they don't come forward as because they're always asked, why didn't you scream? and then, in tears she said, he raped me whether i screamed or not. msnbc legal analyst, recent reuben, who has been following this case from day one was inside the courtroom today, she joins me now. i have to say, just reading through your reporting and others transcript, it sounds like an incredibly emotional intensity in that courtroom. >> a heavy day. absolutely. >> how does the cross-examination start of? >> cross-examination started off this morning, chris, it was such a long day, i'm always at a loss to remember exactly how we started of

in this case, i'm i'm not going to comment on joe tacopina. okay last question for you as you were representing trump in the january 6th investigation. you recently went before the grand jury and that investigation in december. can you still represent trump and do so effectively? if you have gone before the grand jury and are technically a witness? sure because what i went in for into the grand jury was in the place of the custodian of records, and so it was really to talk about our efforts to comply with the subpoena and to search all of the locations and defined any mark documents after the raid on mar-a-lago, and so everything that we did. there is something that, um you know, we wanted to tell the jury. it's all very exonerating. and so it's something that you know. i we discussed it, and we decided that i was going to go in and be the best person to go in and explain to the jury that in a case where they have to prove willful retention of documents, what the facts actually show is a persistent pattern of wool for return of mark documents

out one other part of the motion to dismiss that we know according to donald trump's lawyer joe tacopina that they are looking at is not only do they believe there is not a lawt allows this case to go forward and this is a misreading of the law, but they also claim there is a statute of limitations issue. all of these are ethical and proper motions for a defense lawyer to make your calm whether or not they are going to be granted is down the road and if they are not, it's going to a trial because jeff, i know you were provoking but there's never going to be a plea. >> to build on rikki's points, when i was talking in the last 24 hours to trump's attorneys, they say they are going to make a case in the dismissal motion that trump is being selectively prosecuted in this case, that's because he's a former president, a republican, that he is being prosecuted for that reason. that is going to be at least part of the argument they are making as they try to dismiss this relatively quickly in the coming weeks. >> i want to note, donald trump has been inside that court room for about 40 minutes n

she took on two days of pretty contentious questioning by trump attorney joe tacopina last week.ange, tacopina pressed her about the details of the alleged rape in her book, saying this. now, that is your book in which you included the story about your supposedly being raped. >> carol answer, not supposedly. i was raped. tacopina, that's your version, right, miss carroll, that you were raped? carol again, those are the facts. joining me now, msnbc legal analysts -- who has been in the courtroom covering this for us. let's talk to some of the stuff. he wrote this week trump might finally be held accountable in a court of law. and if it happens, the hero won't be a prosecutor or a politician. after waiting nearly 30 years in a 79 years old carole might just be the first to enforce the law against the true teflon don. talk to us about some of the most compelling stuff you've seen so far. >> some of the most compelling stuff. yasmin, you already read from some of. it is how e. jean carroll is just unwilling to cede her ground about at the core of his story. that donald trump raped he

joe tacopina is with us . the president and ipres actually agree with themiden th you've tried over 100 hundred cases in new york presidents believing and i'm believinge when you have democrats outnumbering republicans in new york city nine to one ,ayine he's saying he doesn't he can a get a fair trial. you've tried one hundred casesrk in new york .tter t do you believe he can or wouldce it be better to get a change of venue? look, it would be better to geto a change of venue. and a lot of things that legal will be moving forward in our legal papers. sean paper, for just the sake of fundamental fairness. that being said ness. , you kn, while i understand that the political geographics of new york city, new york county,r new york juries are smartr and they're gritty.nd eve and even if they don't, thenl be i will be sure to remind this io is not a political election. this is the rule of law.w bein t being applied across thisonald country.tr and today it's donald trump. tomorrow d be a could be a democrat the day

let's bring in joe tacopina. start out by giving us insight into what person trump is thinking and feeling right now. >> here is gearing up -- he is get gearing up for a battle. we believe it is political persecution and i think people on both sides of the aisle believe that. it is complete abuse of power. he is a tough guy, george, as you know, and he is someone who is going to be ready for this fight. we are ready for this fight and i look forward to moving this thing as long to exonerate him. despite what seems to be -- >> george: what evidence do you have that evident -- political persecution? >> what is that? >> george: what evidence do you have that democrats see this as political persecution? >> yeah, i mean, look, there's not only articles that have come out from the new york times, fnancial times, this would be a grave miscarriage -- to bring this case. but i have heard democrats coming out on various talk shows and radio shows and were not saying that this is not the case, not that they are supporting d

susan necklace and joe tacopina have been the attorneys. up until now. todd is now joined the team some questions about what this means for joe tacopina because he has been really the most forward facing on the defense team, but well, i am told that he is definitely still on the team. he says he's going to be the lead attorney at the hearing today. other people have said todd will be the lead attorney, so we'll see. i will note, though susan is the one who has been signing things that have been submitted to the judge, really, we'll just we'll see and again in fighting, you know, jockeying for position. that's nothing new on any legal team, especially trump won. so yesterday we were talking a lot with you about cameras, whether this judge who typically doesn't allow cameras in the courtroom would make an exception because, as you said, i think the word used yesterday was zenith. i was quoting, but, yeah, that's quoting us of the importance and but the judge said no yeah, well, also recognizing how momentous and historic this is. it didn't look good after

has instructed both doe not bring up in front of a jury, the judge warned donald trump' lawyer joe tacopinaere, quote. mr. tacopina, your honor, he's repeating, that your honor wil are just that with my kind today, i will speak to him and ask him to refrain from an further posts regarding th case >> the court, i hope you are more successful, because we ar getting into an area conceivably in which you client may or may not be tampering with a new source of potential liability. i think you know what i mean and quote. back with former federal prosecutor - and washington post reporter what is the judge talking abou there with joe tacopina abou this area of liability tha donald trump is getting into question two, when i saw those posts, i was thinking are no supposed to do the stuff while there is a case involving yo before a court >> so there is a couple of things first of all a judge has t figure out what can i do about the case in front of me, how d i make sure there is a fait -- trial an outcome a couple of court rules that are already in effect in thi case no discussion of dna testing no di

after defense lower year joe tacopina -- sexually assaulted her in the 1990s.d not appear in court, has repeatedly denied her claims, calling them a lie and a hoax. joining me now, msnbc legal analyst, lisa reuben, who is in the courthouse on thursday. so let's get into this. tell me what struck you most about the day, lisa. what were your biggest takeaways? >> my biggest takeaways were twofold, alex. one is how retro daca pena's defense appears to be, and the second is what quite dignity e. jean carroll has, even in some of the -- we'll start with tacopina if we can. the defense strategy here is e. jean carroll's making this up. she wants money, she wants fame, and she hated trump for political reasons echoed by her two friends that she told, at the time. -- three of them were in a conspiracy to destroy trump. but, even if you were to believe her story, and that she is not motivated by those things, he's asking the jury to ask themselves, did she behave both in the moment and afterwards the way we think real rape victims behave? that relies on a bunch of trope

>> reporter: things started off with joe tacopina saying something to e.upposed by raped she says, i was raped. that gives the sense of the tension between the two of them as this cross examination continues and is expected to last for some time he is basically trying to question her in a way to convince the jury that the book that she wrote, where she talked about this alleged r ape for th first time was politically motivated, she was a democrat and an opponent of him, she had been fired from a job in 2017 when the book came out, and that she was attempting to do this to make money there is also mention of an email between her and one of her friends, who will testify at the trial, where there is reference to a scheme of some sort sorry, the ambulance is going by there's reference to a scheme that they are going to try to come up with to try and bring donald trump down. when asked about this, she says she doesn't remember the email, she doesn't know what this is about. again, tacopina, trump's attorney, is trying to convince the jury this is politically mo

it is the scorecard that donal trump loves the most when joe tacopina was talkin today, he is his crimina defense attorney and what did he say? trump is raising more mone than ever. what does tacopina even care >> it is, i mean you look at the way that his business ha been structured. initially fred trump had buildings, actual bricks and mortar trump at the beginning was building towers in new york, and he has gone from that up t these lights syncing fees, primarily. his last hour that he built us in chicago in 2008, and sinc then we have seen him just trade his name he sells us, navies is not really look into the busines partners a lot of the times he end up i bad arrangements, but he i just blocking license fee afte license fee, and those docto to dry up in 2015 when he ra for presidency he's not seen a lot of tha sense. what is he doing now he is not going back and building anything, he is takin money from the saudis -- >> he learned how to monetiz the presidency >> one of the things that is interesting about everything that you talked about in terms of the different investigation that

that was the, obviously, negotiated by his lawyer, joe tacopina, as well as fingerprinting. thank you for that information as well, lydia. we're also seeing, our colleagues at "the wall street journal" are reporting that basically -- because the indictment has been unsealed, to be clear, everybody. the indictment has been unsealed. but basically the prosecutors in this indictment, again, that's just been unsealed and this is "the wall street journal," prosecutors are alleging that the president trump falsified business records to shield campaign from unflattering information becoming public. they allege, the prosecution alleges that trump falsified business records to undermine integrity and that also he was trying to the to, that the business records were falsified, again, to shield his campaign. once again in this hush payment scheme, according to prosecutors, 34 felony counts, charges against the former president. he has pled not guilty. there are other reports about as far as indictment, is this a conspiracy charge, we're working to confirm that right now. those reports

joe tacopina, that is. mika, news of mike pence. he ended up testifying after all of the twists and the turns and the fading and protesting too much. he testified. he always knew he was going to have to testify. >> exactly. it was before a federal grand jury. investigating the january 6th insurrection. this is according to a source familiar with the matter. this is the grand jury that was convened by special counsel jack smith investigating former president donald trump's efforts to overturn his 2020 election loss, and stay in power. two lack suvs enter the courthouse garage around 9:00 a.m. an entrance allowing witnesses to head up to the grand jury rooms without being seen by the public. the suvs left the courthouse about 4:30 p.m. nbc news has learned special counsel jack smith's team is particularly interested in trump's efforts to try to block the certification of the election, and, joe, i guess, you know, the naivete in my, why something important? follow mike pence you might think, why did he search for trump for so long? wha

here with reaction is trump attorney joe tacopina. you know, my first question is , you know, considering, you know, mueller was against this, the doj was against it, the fec was against it. cyrus vance was against this. and even alvin bragg, when he first took office, seemed against this. my question is now the bragge showed his great courage. is he going to get in the courtroom with joe tacopina ? is he going to try this case, start to finish or he'll be in the courtroom? i think it'll be about three or four roads back . but when when and if the bell rings to trial in this case, i have a hunch he's going to be a spectator, not participant. >> you know, i agree with you. it would be the courageous thing to do when you're doing something so historic, so monumental. >> bringing an indictment against the first former president in the history of this country. you know, you should try that yourself, being that you're the one who's, you know, pulling the strings. but i can't imagine that happening. >> of course, i would welcome that, but i

laughter ] but trump apparently has a new lawyer to handle this case a guy whose real name is joe tacopinat make that up. i certainly would never use it as a joke. like if someone asked me what stormy daniels said about trump, i would never say, "he's got a little tacopina. i wouldn't do that [ laughter ] but tacopina went on msnbc this week to defend trump's lie that he didn't know about the hush payment with stormy daniels and the interview got contentious. >> one of the top trial attorneys out of new york, joe tacopina is defending donald trump, and our guess right now, live on "the beat" is trump defense lawyer, joe tacopina if all of what you say is true - >> it is >> then why was trump hiding it and lying about it at the time and i'll play that for your response - >> mm-hmm. >> he lied about it. we all know that >> when you say lied about it -- >> take a look take a look. >> let's see >> mr. president did you know about the $130,000 payment to stormy daniels >> no. >> then why -- why did michael cohen make this if it was going to a - >> -- and you'll have to ask michael. >> ari, that

what does this mean for joe tacopina, who has been the most forward facing member of the defense, or joe tells me he is still on the team, and he expects to be the lead attorney at tomorrow's hearing, jake. all right, paula reed. thank you so much. let's bring in former assistant special watergate prosecutor nick ackerman. he's the former assistant u. s attorney. in the southern district of new york. also with us trial attorney misty maris misty, let me start with you. trump's team is opposing the news media's request for cameras to be allowed in the courtroom. they say it will create a circus like atmosphere and increased security concerns. um explain if you were defending trump if you would also be making that argument, and why yeah, i would absolutely be making that argument and it is because they don't want the media circus surrounding this case. we all know that this is a case of public concern, and they want to avoid any sort of issue that could be prejudicial having the media there now, keep in mind. this argument is particularly effective in new york courts because new york ha

this is what joe tacopina did. this is shayna's reporting.hree hours. she appeared to grow irritated at some moments, including when the attorney asked her why carroll did not scream when trump allegedly assaulted her. one of the reasons women don't come forward is because they're always asked, why didn't you scream? carroll said. some women scream, some women don't. it keeps women silent. after more back and forth with tacopina, carroll responded with audible frustration, he raped me whether i screamed or not. i don't know if joe tacopina has a handbook on rape that all women scream and if they don't, that's what he's betting a jury will believe. i guess? katty? >> he's getting at her behavior. he's getting at her memory. every rape victim that i've spoken to, whether they were raped five years ago or 20 years ago can tell you exactly what that rape felt like. they can tell you exactly what that moment of sexual abuse was like. they may not remember the day. they may not remember the year and that was clearly frustrating in carroll's case, a

but here's what joe tacopina said specifically to dana bash on state of the union on sunday.e will take the indictment. we will dissect it. the team will look at every every, um, potential issue that we will be able to challenge and we will challenge and of course, i very much anticipated motion to dismiss coming because there's no law that fits this. are you going to ask for a different judge? we are going to take the indictment, evaluate all our legal options and pursue everyone most vigorously. this is a case of political persecution. no reason to believe the judge is biased. i have not been before him on this matter. so i we have to let this process play out a asks donald trump's lawyer about the judge. in this case, that judge is one that donald trump has already been out there on truth, social attacking, saying that he hates him. this is the judge that trump is going to have to appear before on tuesday, and much is in the hands of the judge going forward in this case, including whether the case could be tossed could be moved many of the other things that trump's lawyers

my old friend joe tacopina. we were colleagues in the same client matter, and i helped him on his own matter. is a wrong strategy if he thinks he's building his whole strategy on personal attacks on michael cohen, but also let me correct the record and come back to your questions. he just said that the federal prosecutors passed on the case. in fact, they could not prosecute donald trump. because he was just sitting president. he knows better than to misstate the facts on that. let me just just to be clear on that. yes they passed when donald trump was a sitting president, but he hasn't been a sitting president for more than two years, and they still decided not to prosecute your they is after he got out of the white house was after 16 insurrection questions whether this justice department wanted to spend its energy looking at donald trump on this conduct versus 16. can't they do it all could have done both, and there's no doubt but i just am saying he misstated the fact that they passed. they did not pass. in f

he's thoughtful not to say joe tacopina is not those things but demeanor wise.d so you won't see todd blanche. i don't think on tv. let's put it back. quit his job. yes at a big firm case he had to quit. he couldn't just say this on ice for a while. i don't know. i don't know if this is temporary or where i've quit my job for mr trump. and so how does that work out? well it didn't work out well for me, but it might work out for this lawyer and hard hard to know. but what happens to you is you get sucked into the moment and then your ego. you get this little bit of an ego infection. you're like, okay, i'm going to be defending the former president, united states, the first president in history to be indicted, and if i can exonerate him, or somehow make this go away from him. i think it's a big deal, and i think, he said, i think it's intoxicating. he literally said this was an opportunity. i couldn't pass up right but definitely could leave wickersham and taft. you know, a white shoe law firm. active job . i'm curious why he had to leave the firm to take this cas

i don't think so, jake because joe tacopina says he didn't actually get any confidential information from stormy daniels, in which case there wouldn't really be a conflict here. it may be that the former president is unhappy with the fact that those comments pencil tacopina were made and we had all those side by side tv segments about that, so he may be looking to add to his legal team because he's not happy with joe tacopina. but you know, this is the time when you would add. someone has actually been indicted. now they're going to start going to court. it's not so surprising that he would add someone to the team and todd blanche is a very experienced defense lawyer and former federal prosecutor. so he seems like a good pick for that, charlie. um officials in the new york say that there is no major security threat in new york as of right now, based on the intelligence they have. um how does this differ from the lead up to january? 6th do you think the new york the nypd has is better prepared? i mean, there's no doubt that because of the example of january 6th in the backdrop, everyo

he's thoughtful not to say joe tacopina is not those things but demeanor wise. and so you won't see todd blanche. i don't think on tv. let's put it that way. he quit his job. yes at a big firm case he had to quit. he couldn't just say this on ice for a while. i don't know . i don't know if this is temporary or where i've quit my job for mr trump. and so how does that work out? well, it didn't work out well for me, but it might work out for this lawyer is hard to know. but what happens to you? is you get sucked into the moment and then your ego. you get this little bit of an ego infection. you're like, okay, i'm going to be defending the former president. united states, the first president in history to be indicted, and if i can exonerate him, or somehow make this go away from him. i think it's a big deal, and i literally said, i think it's intoxicating, literally said this was an opportunity. i couldn't pass up right. you definitely could leave wickersham and taft. you know, a white shoe law firm their lucrative job. i'm curious why he had to leave the firm to t

joe tacopina, lawyer for donald trump, he's defended trump in another defamation case . todd blanche, previously represented paul manafort trump insider who has, you know went to prison for federal charges, he managed to keep it from becoming and echoed state charge and susan necklace worked on that tax fraud case in which trump cfo went off to jail. just some of the faces. there may be many, many more as this case moves forward over what could be a very long time. alison tom. thank you very much. let's bring back my panel now. joey let's talk. we'll all of us. let's talk about these two attorneys who are on the trump team, and they are night and day appears so. todd black, who's from this white shoe law firm procedures law firm and then there's joe tacopina, who's more of a i guess street fighter cable news fixture and today we just saw it in stark relief first, todd blanche came out and was talking to the press. and then joe tacopina kind of jumped in like , let me handle this. so here was that moment. there's nothing else to say. except the district attorney. this thi

today she was cross examined by joe tacopina a brutal cross examination focused on her maemory lapsesdge who called some of the lawyer's questions argumentative and repetitive earlier, tacopina pressed her about her failure to recall the exact date of her encounter with trump. i wish we could give you a date, she said she never planned to go public with her claim she changed her mind after "the new york times" reporting about harvey weinstein she said she thought that telling her story might be a way to change theculture of sexual violence in a striking moment earlier today, whe lisa, i start with you take your time and take us through the day. >> reporter: it was extraordinarily powerful what i would say is, joe tacopina was gentler than folks anticipated. but he definitely tried his very hardest to shake up e. jean car carroll. he didn't. at one point she reclaimed her time, so to speak. he was trying to press her on why she didn't scream. he offered a number of alternative explanations that he says she herself had offered to try to show that she had offered inconsistent reasons for

. >> reporter: trump's lawyer in the new york case, joe tacopina, tells cbs news that his client hasthing wrong and sharply criticized cohen's credibility. cbs news legal analyst ric iema s ys, i s it's not so much the crim up of thr:orlis believe it ll be an open and shut case. >> the district attorney alvin bragg has a very tough road ahead. where alvin bragg has issues is going to be with the court. you're going to have a judge who is going to have to rule on the legality of this case going forward. this is not going to be a simple case. >> reporter: and don't forget, she says, this is just one of several ongoing investigations of the former president, including a special counsel probe of trump's conduct around january 6. >> donald trump has some very serious legal challenges, far more serious than the one in new york. where you're dealing with crimes against the united states of ame america. that's very different than a scheme involving business records within the trump organization. those are serious crimes. >> reporter: this crossroads is a reckoning not only for trump but for

joe tacopina, one of the lawyers representing president trump says he plans to file several motions to dismiss on this case on multiple grounds. one being selective prosecution. in his speech last night at mar-a-largo, mr. trump had harsh words for alvin bragg. take a listen. >> the criminal is the district attorney because he illegally leaked massive amounts of grand jury information. for which he should be prosecuted or at a minimum he should resign. >> yesterday mr. trump pleaded not guilty to 34 felony counts of falsifying business records including transactions associated with alleged hush money payments to adult film actress stormy daniels. a federal appeals court in california has ruled that daniels must pay more than $120,000 in legal fees that mr. trump accumulated defending himself against her defamation lawsuit against him that ended up being dismissed in 2018. neil, in his mar-a-largo speech last night, mr. trump also declared his innocence in two other investigations including federal investigation in his handling of white house documents stored at mar-a-largo and a georgi

joe tacopina said he would talk to his client.the first treaweet but he would follow up again. >>> here with me now jennifer rodgers. her testimony today, was that the most crucial testimony that's likely to occur? >> it is. we have to see how the cross goes. it's both the direct and the cross. it's all the marbles are with jean carroll and her testimony. >> if the jury doesn't believe what she says, then the case is over? >> right. exactly. >> does it hurt the former president's chances of prevailing, the fact he is not physically there in court? >> it's hard to say what the jurors think about it in their minds as they make this decision. it probably does. everyone else is sitting there through all of this. they might wonder, why is he not giving this the time of day? he also can't tell his side of the story this way. he cannot put in his own deposition testimony. e. jean carroll's can put in trump's testimony. but he can't do it. he will have to get his denial of this out through the cross examination. if he were there and testi