. >>> i want to bring in now joel brenner. let's talk about these hackers.the internet actually a target? >> the internet is a target. but it would be better to say the internet is a highway through which lots of things can be targeted. the internet is a porous way of communicating. our public is now figuring out that privacy on the internet is more or less nonexistent and not because people are evil but because it's an utterly porous way to communicate. there's no way to know for sure who you're talking to and no way to make sure that person isn't taking things from your system. you can penetrate the network to put bad things into it or to corrupt the information on it or to shut it down completely. that nice lead-in piece that you had isn't the first time this has been demonstrated. more than ten years ago, back in the '90s in australia, a disgruntled guy who didn't get a job he wanted went around opening and closing valves with his laptop on a local water supply and sewage system. and the result was that sewage spewed into the water supply and it caused u