what do you think of joel kline's success? [laughter] >> think it's too early to tell. but i think better commit and -- i mean, she's clearly committed for all the right reasons and you know, i guess we'll see what happens. [laughter] i think we should reach a point where when we are trying to figure out who should be the superintendent of our nation's largest school systems or newark, new jersey for that matter which is in the midst of a superintendent church or atlanta or soon-to-be chicago, where some of the best jobs on the planet, they should be, we should be considering sites of people who bought the foundational experience is necessary to do that job. issue people who have typed in transformational ways, ran trans-to national schools and supported other transformational schools. can you imagine ge, for a ceo selection just stepping back and deciding not someone you haven't even worked in corporate america should be the ceo? i mean, we would never do it. again, this is why i say i wonder if we think this is a true crisis. but we can't blame the mayor because the f

what do you think of joel kline's success? [laughter] >> think it's too early to tell. but i think better commit and -- i mean, she's clearly committed for all the right reasons and you know, i guess we'll see what happens. [laughter] i think we should reach a point where when we are trying to figure out who should be the superintendent of our nation's largest school systems or newark, new jersey for that matter which is in the midst of a superintendent church or atlanta or soon-to-be chicago, where some of the best jobs on the planet, they should be, we should be considering sites of people who bought the foundational experience is necessary to do that job. issue people who have typed in transformational ways, ran trans-to national schools and supported other transformational schools. can you imagine ge, for a ceo selection just stepping back and deciding not someone you haven't even worked in corporate america should be the ceo? i mean, we would never do it. again, this is why i say i wonder if we think this is a true crisis. but we can't blame the mayor because the f

and joel kline has worked to do exactly this and this is what they have done in new orleans.ne is whenever you see one of these transformational school, always they are run by someone who feels deep passionate commitment and full ownership over ensuring their kids get on a different path. if they don't have the freedom they take the freedom to do whatever it takes to get to the end results. we really need to ground our policy in an understanding of that dynamic and the implication is central system would send an immense amount of energy with real leadership which is a process. you can't have a great leaders like recruiting them into the classroom, keep some of them in the classroom and leadership roles and what not. we need to obsess over talent developments like any organization does but we also need to empower our leaders to get results. that kind of restructuring is the answer overall. >> host: unions? >> guest: unions need to change just like districts need to change and lots of other things need to change but the idea that -- what them off the face of the earth. >> host: