john avalon, upon further review, i love this segment, what you have found?ion around the possibility of a lab leak because of shifting evidence. it's fascinating stuff. all right. the department of energy's assessment that a chinese lab leak was likely caused of the covid pandemic is big news. not because the matter is now settled. not by a long shot. this assessment is graded low confidence. but it is more evidence that the biden administration is actively investigating an idea that was once being actively shut down. that's the subject to have day's "upon further review." the first steps during the pandemic to slow the spread then find a vaccine. finger pointing doesn't solve the problems. knowing the origin helps us figure out what went wrong. it's less likely to happen again. so let's dig into the debate around the origins of covid. here's what we know. the buyers first reported in humans in wuhan china traced to a seafood wet market that is close to a virology lab. here's another piece of relevant information. accidental lab leaks happen. a lot. don't ta

cnn's senior anchor and analyst, political analyst john avalon is here and senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor elie honey. let's pick wrup they left off. michael cohen going in on monday to speak to the grand jury. he has been in, what, 19 times to talk to brad's office or in the correctional facilty. you don't typically have someone going in that many times if something is not afoot here. >> that's correct. this is an unusual feature. if you are close to indicting someone, you have to give that person a chance to come into the grand jury and testify. that is certainly not the way it works federally. but, yes, this tells us that they're close to the end and it's highly likely that they will seek an indictment from a grand jury. >> everyone asks when they read the reporting, the cnn reporting, "the new york times" reporting, then what does that mean? >> yeah. >> what does that mean? >> let's put it in perspective. if there is an indictment of the president, it will be a first. it will be historic. it will be monumental. we need to keep perspective here. this will be a state c

john avalon joins us to discuss.the air about election fraud lies and what they said privately, there are numerous examples. here is another one, the conversation november 18th, a couple weeks after the election, tucker carlson claimed he caught powell, sidney powell who had propagated some of these theories lying to which laura i think graham called powell a complete nut. that same night, though, on her show ingram criticized those who were dismissing trump's lies as conspiracy theories, she said the following. have a listen. >> rush limbaugh had a great show today where he went through all of these affidavits from people who have been working in ballot counting for 20 years who cited really disturbing things that they had seen. >> so this has been exposed multiple times saying one thing on the air, saying something very different privately. what are the consequences of this and are fox viewers hearing that -- those revelations as well? >> no, they're not. and that's consistent with what fox has been doing according

please welcome john avalon. thank you, john. john: it's an honor to be with you all. i feel like they put me between you all that i'd really have to keep you guys apart but this is a real friendship and some of the fun we're going to have. i want to welcome you all formally to federal hall, and all of you -- i see steve israel and barbara com stock. fergus -- by the way, i loved his book and used it for research i used on george washington's farewell address. this is really a civics base, a sacred civic place. the birthplace of the bill of rights. george washington stood and took the oater here. lower man hatten is one of the most historic and patriotic places you possibly could be. i recall when ted cruz once said dismissably about new york values. i think a walk around lower manhattan reminds us how much of the history we share here and commute with it daily. welcome. i want to ask you about what fergus talked about. how does it feel as current members of congress to be in a sacred place where the first congress served on a day we've had hearings about january 6, wh

. >> john avalon. former congressman -- and the ever unflappable, s. e. cupp. , he voices his reservations about the lies or whatever the fox hosts were spinning in private, but not publicly. doesn't seem like they respect his opinion, nothing has changed after he voices his reservations. >> yeah. look, this is the negotiation of people inside, whether it's fox or some folks who served in the trump administration. the argument is, look, i've got influence, it's better to be in the room. problem is, that process itself becomes corrupted. your belief that you can change the culture, the culture ultimately eat you for breakfast. look, let's be honest. part of the problem we're seeing in foxes a version of what we're seeing in the republican party. it's a form of stock onstage room. it's driven by fear and greed. for paul ryan, being on the news corp is part of his retirement package, he hopes that fox can reform itself. but everything we've seen from discovery suggests that this is miro deep inside the culture, people who are trying to tell the truth where the outl

. >>> let's talk about this a lot more with john avalon.e is reporting on extremism in politics since a book you wrote a decade ago. let's start where kristen's piece ended. larry hogan saying that on cbs, writing this piece and the times explaining why he's not doing it. but other republican governors disagree that it will be a multicar pylon. >> he's one of the most popular governors, hogan, in america. >> that's the poin point to remember. we talk a lot about -- there splent of evidence of how divided we are. we forget most popular governors in america have been republicans in blue states. larry hogan, charlie baker in particular, phil scott. those are the people you want to run for president. they have the ability to unite across partisan lines. hogan now realizing there is not a place for him in the republican party, bowing out before a fight saying this is not the one he's taking on. i think that's a loss for the nation. >> trump is making his speech. he was headlining and really basically the major political force there. there is no

alright john avalon, margaret hoover. great to see you again. thanks so much guys. appreciate it, man. be well, good to see you again. you two still ahead. iranian backed groups in syria are vowing revenge after the u. s retaliated over a drone strike that killed an american contractor, congressman jeff jackson, a veteran and member of the armed services committee, joins me next year live in the cnn newsroom. i control my septic system. it does not controll me. i do not fear to ply. i will use red x monthly to help prevent a backup because rid x is scientifically proven to breakdown. septic waste guaranteed together with rid x. when you stay at a verbal, you always get the whole home. part of it, but the whole upstairs downstairs. whole fridge and the whole secret nap room because is it really vacation home if you have to share the house with the host. only with verbose. there are more identity threats than you realized. lifelock alerts you and works to fix problems with a dedicated restoration specialist, go to lifelock .com the first time you connected your go dad

get it done. joy, kid, zebra, john, now you russia, but a full blown? jenny avalon fin moved out a commodities because a lot of money comes o'clock. hello. everyone goes to move towards mission. good on good groper, somebody. you know, one point on i'm always interested in archives as an artist, as a filmmaker, and as a teacher. and i had been making work in, in about afghanistan for a number of years. and for me, it was really exciting to find out that afghanistan had this incredibly rich and deep cinematic history of which i was totally unaware. and then to realize that most other people were also totally unaware of it. it was like finding a hidden treasure. and then thinking here is something i can actually do, says start bringing some of those histories back into circulation. ah, what is really extraordinary about looking at these films is that they all tell us something really important about afghanistan as a nation, and how it envisioned itself at the moment that those films were made. ah does it says she wants to push it, pulled up to do something with the ha