i think it's also an unknown, phil rucker, whether or not we will ever see john bolton. think he and the legal strategy charted by his attorney last friday night on behalf of mr. kupperman, bolton's deputy. i think they're happy to leave that in the hands of the judge in that decision. but i want to just -- i mean, so much of bolton's conduct has been brought to light. and some of it by your colleague greg miller who has an incredible piece of reporting in today's "washington post" about two meetings. your colleague greg miller writes in a pair of volatile meetings senior white house officials including then national security adviser john bolton. president trump was seeking to use the power of his office to pressure ukraine to deliver damaging information on former vice president joe biden and his son. john bolton's been in washington a long time. if people were testifying under oath on capitol hill about events that were untrue, if things were showing up that were untrue, i think the long arms of sort of bolton would be aware of it and would be correcting passages like t

this as we're learning more about john bolton's concerns that politics was influencing mr. trump's ukraine policy. >>> transcript omission. new questions tonight about the white house record of the president's very controversial phone call with ukraine. a major witness revealing that key words were left out of the transcript, including a reference to joe biden. >>> isis raid images. the pentagon just released the first video from the u.s. raid that led to the death of the terrorist leader abu bakr al baghdadi. what do the images reveal? >>> and hurricane force. ferocious winds stoke california's rapidly growing wildfire disaster. the flames threatening thousands of homes and coming dangerusly close to the reagan presidential library. we want to welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm wolf blitzer, you're in theuatithe "situation room." >> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. >> we're following breaking news on what could be one of the most important witnesses yet in the impeachment investigation. sources tell cnn that house democrats have invited

appears john bolton was offloading concerns rather than deal with him which is his taxpayer funded duty. bolton did not just cover ukraine. his mandate, the world. he would know if the president asked other countries to investigate other rivals and also had a bird's-eye view of the full range of resources, carrots and sticks, that the president or mick mulvaney or other koss have used to try to blackmail or intimidate other countries. the scope of questions i think asked to john bolton will be really important to keep an eye on. >> i don't know when this whole idea getting a subpoena became optional. right? it's a like, will he or won't he? will he feel like it? that's what make it is a subpoena. you have to comply. maybe be able to negotiate it. one way or another bolteden needs to come forward and i wish more of these, dedicated career public officials would follow the example we've seen from vindman yesterday from bill taylor from dr. fiona hill and ambassador yovanovitch. all people who defied the white house's stonewall, came forward and presumably told the truth, testified, did th

and the big reason john bolton has for not wanting to do that, the big disincentive john bolton has about testifying publicly is the financial incentive he has to say all of his most colorful and most condemning stories about donald trump for his book, his big book which he is reportedly already working on. and the value of that book increases as long as john bolton can hold on to his trump secrets, which also means that the value of that book declines if john bolton is forced to reveal some of those secrets publicly in testimony to the impeachment inquiry and long before he can publish his book. so it seems unlikely that john bolton will show up for his deposition next thursday. even if he's hit with a subpoena in the meantime. in addition to requesting testimony from john bolton the impeachment inquiry has sent requests for testimony to john eisenberg, the top lawyer for the national security counsel and michael ellis, asking them for appear for depositions monday. fiona hill, president trump's former top russia aide on the national security council testified earlier this mont she met w

you've got john r. bolton, the national security adviser. gordon sondland, who is a trump donor and ambassador to the european union who was going to testify on thursday to congress. then you've got fiona hill today, right? and then you've got mick mulvaney who is acting white house chief of staff. you've got rudy giuliani, the president's personal attorney. now, just -- i just want to read this. and just tell me what you think of this one graph here. it says mr. bolton, because he was so concerned about what they were doing over there, instructed fiona hill, who is gonna -- who testified today. the senior director of russian and eurasia affairs to notify the chief lawyer for the national security council that mr. giuliani was working with mick mulvaney, the acting white house chief of staff, on a rogue operation with legal implications. ms. hill told the investigators according to two people familiar with her closed-door testimony. that's a pretty big statement right there. >> it's huge. it means that inside the white house at the very inne

describing a rather unholy alliance between giuliani, sondland, and mulvaney and john bolton and his allies pushing back. from that "times" report, "mr. bolton got into a tense exchange on july 10th with sondland. the trump donor turned ambassador to the eu. who was working with giuliani to press you crane to investigate democrats. hill testified that mr. bolton told her to notify the chief lawyer for the national security council about a rogue effort by mr. sondland, mr. giuliani, and mick maul vain ulvanemulvaney. ms. hill testified mr. giuliani and his allies circumvented the usual national security process to run their own foreign policy efforts leaving the president's official advisers aware of the rogue operation but powerless to stop it." hill also implicated the president in this surreal bit of testimony. also reported by "the new york times." she reportedly described confronting sondland about the ukraine operation and when she asked him who put him in charge of ukraine, sondland replied, quote, the president. hill was the first white house adviser to testify in the impeachme

it's ironic that john bolton is calling anyone else a hand grenade when john is described by many as an atomic bomb. this war of words shedding more heat than light. if bolton was deeply read into what was going on in ukraine d and, craig, you have to wonder if his name doesn't go on the democrats' wish list for someone they'd want to talk to as the inquiry heats up with congress back in town. >> hans, how concerned are they that john bolton is now being dragged into this impeachment probe? >> reporter: if they are, they aren't portraying it. they're trying to avoid getting in on the tit for tat. john bolton is willing to not just contradict the white house, but the president himself. the day he departed, there's a dispute as to whether he resigned or whether the president fired him. john bolton is a knife fighter. he never backs down. he went out here with guns blazing, to mix my metaphors for you. we do know john bolton does like to set the record straight. as you can tell from some of his language, he can be quite colorful. we know that from various memos he's written. john bolton

kupperman and john bolton. that's bolton the national security adviser and his deputy.o you think that leaving it up to the courts, do we have anything in the tea leaves that suggest how those two men would like for this to end? do you have any reporting that suggests they're willing to appear on capitol hill? or are we really willing to sort of throw this to the judicial branch and say we'll serve whichever body the judge says. >> you don't see ambassador bolton out in the public decrying the process on capitol hill. instead he is talking to his lawyer, checking the boxes, seeing how it plays out in court. but, remember, he texted me just a few weeks ago, says he will have his say and that national security was always top of mind when he was in the white house. when i asked him to go further, he said he'll leave it at that. and based on our reporting he was also in discussions about a book deal. so this is someone who wants to have his say at some point. what you see from the white house is pat cipollone, the white house counsel trying to stop this wave of testimony wi

today also behind closed door another witness referred to john bolton as well. christopher anderson who said bolton referred to rudy giuliani as an on stockal in boltstering the alliance and uncertain whether he will appear but they did tell me they could subpoena him if he does not appear in the coming days because his testimony is so we do expect the national security council lawyer john eisenberg next week and heard the concerns from vindman and owners. it is uncertain if he'll appear and this comes as the closed-door portion of the investigation is coming to a close, wolf. >> the closed-door portion. the public hearings are only set to begin fairly soon now. and the top u.s. diplomat in ukraine bill taylor is willing to testify potentially a star witness for the democrats. how damaging could his public testimony be and it certainly will be televised? >> reporter: we're told from a source familiar with his thinking that he's willing to testify publicly. this after he went behind closed doors and raised significant concerns about the aid withheld to ukraine als

talked how her boss john bolton referred to giuliani as a hand grenade who was going to get everyone blown up because of his efforts. she laid out for lawmakers the concerns she had and bolton then the national security advisers had about the way u.s. policies with ukraine was being conducted and believed there was wrongdoing going on there. people bringing um investigations. the biden investigations and bolton told her go and report this to the national security council lawyer. now, so much of this, brooke, you know, drives back to rudy giuliani and his efforts and the way he really bought in to this campaign against the ukraine ambassador maria yovanovitch, went seeking dirt on the bidens and put this in the president's ear. all of this stuff in the run-up to the president's call with the ukrainian president on july 25th. but rudy giuliani wasn't the only one who was essentially doing his own version of diplomacy. hill also told lawmakers gordon sondland, u.s. ambassador to the european union and mick mulvaney acting chief of staff essentially running a rogue operation when it came

and john bolton did spend a lot of time with the president. towards the end there was a bit of a falling out, but for a large part of the time that he was in the white house, he was by the president's side every day. and it would be remarkable if he does indeed testify. and all suggestions are that he will. i think one of the questions is whether he would want to do that publicly or do it privately or both. but any public appearance by him would be potentially devastating to president trump. at the same time, you know, he's still a republican. it's not like he's going to be a michael cohen and turn into the democrats' arms. so it's a dangerous thing for the president. at the same time he's not the kind of witness that's going to just, you know, do everything that the democrats want a witness to do in this instance. >> that would seem to be though it makes him the most dangerous witness. he's not going it be on capitol hill as any -- i mean, no even fantasy from this white house could depict him as any sort of deep-state actor. he's a conservat

you can tie to rudy giuliani, john bolton.john bolton left, all the republicans said how wonderful he was. rudy giuliani is going to blow everything up. go make sure this is documented. john bolton says, i'm not part of any drug deal sondland and mulvaney are cooking up. where are the leading republicans saying impeachment might be too far, democrats might be out over their skis, but we need to get ahead of this. where are they? >> lawmakers are back this week from a two-week recess, so we will get a chance to talk to republicans face to face and really press them on responding to some of these allegations. but i think the big thing from fiona hill's testimony, what she did was she was able to connect this sort of concern we've seen at the state department level from these officials that a lot of people have never heard of and connect it to trump's inner circle by saying john bolton himself was concerned about this and told me -- told her -- to go to a lawyer and say, look, we think there are legal problems with what's going o

so right now we don't know if john bolton will appear. they have not issued a subpoena for him to appear yet but right now that is an invitation made and the question is is he going to take them up on it and if does he, what does he say? that is incredibly significant for all of this because of course we've seen all of the people going and testifying on capitol hill and not a lot of them had interactions directly with president trump. john bolton, of course, someone in the oval office almost every day and while he and the president soured in their relationship at the end, he knows a lot because he was at the center of this fight over this military aid with mick mulvaney. he's not the only one though. there are two other big invitations for john eisenberg the lawyer for the national security counsel also in the middle of this because he was someone who several staffers who had issues with the president's july phone call went and spoke with him about. he's also another person that he and the national security counsel legal team, the white h

it's really ironic that john bolton is calling anyone else a hand grenade and john is described by many as an atomic bomb. it underscores the fact that there are holes in the white house's strategy. they sent out that letter saying they were not going to comply with this impeachment inquiry but that gets a lot tougher to do when you're talking about former officials like fiona hill who are not governed, they would argue, by the same rules and regulations as government officials. and i know josh has a lot of reporting about what went on behind the scenes between fiona hill's team and the white house. >> josh, fiona hill, british-born, superb academic, working in the white house and the intelligence community. tell us about her testimony, her background, and her relationship with john bolton that may have led john bolton to resign. >> reporter: andrea, she is a very serious person, had been an intelligence official and probably the utmost expert in the administration on russia. she had a front row seat to everything that would have been happening on the ukraine and leading up to the call

alex fiona hill testified yesterday about john bolton and john bolton told her to go to white house councilause he was so concerned about what was going on in regards to president trump, rudy giuliani, and ukraine. what do you make of that jaw-dropping fact? >> that it's jaw dropping. it's really stunning. we can't come up with enough adjectives. we cannot overstate this, kate. here you have the most senior foreign policy aide in the white house, john bolton, the national security adviser, telling a senior member of his team, fiona hill, that he was so uncomfortable with the way the president was carrying out the relationship with ukraine that the lawyers should know about it. bolton has been pretty quiet since he lost his job at the white house. but fiona hill was telling lawmakers there was what she called a rogue operation going on. bolton compared it to a drug deal. at the center of this which many democrats have called a shadow foreign policy with ukraine is the president's peshl lawyer who we know was trying to dig up dirt on joe biden and his son in ukrainian. hill said yesterday tha

now, john bolton himself recently fired donald trump's national security advisor. it's always seemed interesting to me that bolton was ousted as national security advisor basically the same time donald trump was forced to relent and let that military aid finally go through. that all happened september 11th, september 12th. john bolton himself i think is viewed as a wild card, what he would be willing to say, what indeed he was part of. there are mysteries about john bolton's behavior including why he wasn't on the call between president trump and president zelensky when people like the secretary of state were. well, the house today has officially requested testimony of the impeachment proceedings of president trump from john bolton as of next week. we don't know whether or not bolton will appear. when he served as national security advisor his deputy was charles cupperman. cupperman was the one last week brought a lawsuit in response to his request to testify to the impeachment committees. cupperman asked a judge to intervene, to tell him whether or not he should ob

very much so it's material that it's john bolton that it's fiona hill who are raising these concerns and these aren't generalized concerns these aren't partisan political concerns these are concerns that go right to the core of a well functioning government you know the united states has a law that prohibits soliciting foreign powers interference in domestic electoral politics the entire ukraine episode is in fact a violation of that law and what we're going to see is a level of culpability for that conduct that will start at the core of that and will will extend outward will see how far the culpable how far the culpability ring extends but it certainly is significant that it's john bolton it's fiona hill it's. we seem to have lost christopher christopher a senior fellow at the atlantic council joining us from tampa florida where mexico's president has called on people to lie down their arms and not solve their problems for violence after 2 mass shootings the attacks happened in 2 of the most violent states where drug gangs battle for control of smuggling routes reports from mexico c

john bolton saw donald trump every day. that's what the national security adviser's job is. and so, if bolton testifies in detail about his interactions with the president, on the subject of ukraine, that would be tremendously significant, in either direction. if he exonerates the president, fine. if he incriminates him, fine, too. but he's the person who would probably have had the most contact with the president about what he wanted to do in ukraine. >> and this tremendous fascination inside the white house about what bolton would do. because we know he has an axe to grind since leaving the white house, and we're not sure which side he's going to land on. so i think that's one of the conversations they're having is exactly what will john bolton do? his history tells us that he's not exactly friendly with the democrats, but, you know, he's not happy about what happened in the white house. >> sara, you have been doing some important reporting on the eventual decision to go ahead and make the nearly $400 million in military assistance to ukraine available and how that unfolded

then national security adviser john bolton.now from cnn's sara murray. >> reporter: weeks ahead of president trump's controversial july 25th phone call with the ukrainian president that sparked the impeachment inquiry, the rift over ukraine spilled out in a series of dramatic white house meetings. july 10th, ukraine's secretary of national security and defense council travelled to washington to meet with then national security adviser john bolton. then special envoy to ukraine kurt volker, gordon sondland and energy secretary rick perry. u.s. career national security expe experts alexander vindman was also there. ukrainian counterparts tweeting great discussion. good team work. we stand with ukraine. privately, though, things were going sour. the ukrainians were angling for an in-person meeting between newly elected president zelensky and president trump, an important sign of solidarity between the u.s. and ukraine as the country continued to face threats from rusha. ambassador sondland started to speak about ukraine delivering

ask john bolton, okay?he situation with iran where we unilaterally left with allies, and could have put pressure on iran to back them off, how they involved themselves in the middle east and developing bl g ballistic missiles and as a group come together to work to make sure that china started living up to trait ruleses. doing it alone and implications and damage will have to be calculated over a few years. it's unbelievable. >> adding to that is this impeachment inquiry and you have career officials now coming out and testifying and's how much does it bother you, anger you, that it took a whistle-blower speaking up and out to blow the lid off this thing? >> well, i mean, the call was, you know -- maybe it would have been shelved but it wasn't. we have whistle-blower because they can come and do things and need to be protected. if all of a sudden knows who they are and they're lives are turned upsidedown and people say if you're challenginging the president people ought to know who you are. somebody in the

he said he and bolton worked together in the past and had a good relationship. if johne i was like a hand grenade, i would have said, well, you are like an atomic bomb. he said it didn't make sense that bolton wouldn't just pick up the phone, give him a ring. it didn't make sense if people thought he was working with mick mulvaney. private closed door testimony, scott perry, he's a member of the house foreign affairs committee. let me first ask you, in these hearings are you hearing anything that is causing you some alarm and second of all, are you hearing things that are so classified the rest of the world shouldn't hear them? >> of course you probably know that even though this is in the skiff, none of it is classified. that's verified over and over again. so the fact that it's being kept from anybody and everybody is a mystery to all of us. that having been said, you also probably know that none of us are supposed to be talking about what's happening in those depositions. those are the rules of the house. the fact that i am hearing from some ever beige from d verbiag

with regard to john bolton and rudy giuliani, i heard mayor giuliani say john bolton doesn't have a good understanding of the work he was doing in ukraine and he doesn't understand the connection of ukraine to the origins of collusion in 2016. is that the white house take, that john bolton doesn't understand the investigation here? >> i haven't had a direct conversation with president trump about john bolton or any conversations that fiona hill talk to democrats in the least secret hearings and backdoor meetings that she had the last couple of days. what i can tell you is that conversations the president and i have about this center around a much broader problem, that is the fact that there are several people in the federal government who consistently and dangerously leak information about our national security to the press. it puts people's lives at risk, it's got to stop. it happens all too often, we have seen so many of the president's calls leaked whether it was with mexico or australia, obviously ukraine was an issue. it isn't just these shadowy people in the federal government, it'

out hilariously in public on twitter, president trump's favorite forum apparently, about whether john bolton fired or whether he quit. bolton insisting he quit and resigned the administration because of deep divides on national security and foreign policy issues that he had with his former boss, donald j. trump. john bolton, of course, a noted war hawk dating back to the george w. bush era if not before, was someone who wanted to do a lot more interventions overseas than president trump did. as we reported at the daily beast earlier this year, within six days, not even a whole week of him leaving or being kicked out of donald trump's white house, he was already talking to various literary agents about writing a book and donald trump uses a book to settle scores. so beyond whatever happens with bolton on capitol hill in the coming days or weeks with regards to the democrats' impeachment inquiry, you can bet that in the coming months and years he'll be trying to settle scores with his former boss, president trump. >> he has a long memory. in my haste, ned price is also with us, msnbc national

john bolton the formerrenade na security adviser referring to him as a hand grenade. and that instructing the officialsls to go to white housy lawyers with what they were yes learning.te you also have then testimony yesterday by an official who hao experience in ukraine saying he. was told to lie lowow when he raised concerns about rudy ite u giuliani. do youugu have concerns about w was happening at the white thee house? >> first of all, i want to say that there has been a pattern be my democratic colleagues to tryi

maybe john bolton will say yes i've been waiting to testify. can i bring my notes. the impeachment committees have scheduled bolton for his testimony next week. even though these impeachment proceedings are still at this point behind closed doors, the drama still increases every day. today the rules committee voted on the format and the procedures that the impeachment committees will use to move on to the next phase of their inquiry which will include public hearings. a full vote will take place in the house tomorrow and spoiler alert, it will pass. meanwhile, while that is moving forward kwhy the house is movin toward the public hearings part of the hearings, members of the administration that have proximity are finding themselves getting asked about this stuff. any time they pop their heads above water even if it's not formally part of what's going on with the impeachment. today, for example, the number two official at the state department under mike pompeo had his confirmation hearing to become trump's new ambassador to russia. john sullivan may or may not continu

>> chris: john bolton -- >> jessica: a deep state democrat like john bolton? >> lisa: jessica, the reason why i made that previously, but i think ultimately 2020 is going to come down to -- i think most americans look around and say, "a pox on everyone's house." no one has the moral high ground. my party doesn't come either. >> harris: they don't get things done on capitol hill, we get that. >> lisa: nobody does preultimately comes down to which candidate will advance the position i want advanced. the same thing 2016 came a doctor because that's what 2020 will come down to. all these conversations, "you did this, you did this, yada yada," and that's what 2020 will be about. >> harris: and ethics suggestion. your last word? >> jessica: chris, you want to stop laughing like that. if you put donald trump versus joe biden up there and you asked for some kind of question about their morality of their ethics, or level of corruption, considering what's going on, right now come with corruption relating to ukraine, you're going to get joe biden by a mile there. donald

if kupperman is the test case for bollen to and the idea this is really a figure of how john bolton will is bolton worth the legal fight and time? >> democrats don't necessarily know. any democrat that thinks that bolton's testimony will help their case, really doesn't know bolton's history that well. it really could be a factor where he could help the president or he could hurt the president. that's the big unknown with what his testimony will be. we shouldn't lose sight of what we know, that is damming testimony from multiple officials, including the ambassador to ukraine. republicans will say well, he didn't have direct knowledge, he wasn't in conversation with the president. given what we read in those 15 pages from bill taylor, that, by far, i incriminating piece of evidence that democrats have and that's what they will be runni bolton wasn't on the call. >> kupperman was. >> and that's why some ways he's more high value and then the x . absolutely. because look, if you look at how the evidence has come in for, you know, for the pro-impeachment forces, everything has pointed towards

then hanging over all of it is the question of what john bolton will do. will he break with his old boss as white house counsel john dean during watergate? his perspective is unique, especially welcome tonight. he joins along with jen psaki, also jeffrey toobin. jeff, what do you make of congressman himes saying that a quid pro quo isn't the be-all and end of all here? >> well, ultimately that's going to be a political judgment for congress. they're the ones who define what an impeachment offense is. it's worth noting that colonel vindman was so outraged by the president's conduct before he knew about whether there was a quid pro quo at all, he went to his superiors to express his concerns about that phone call, saying only that the president is asking a leader of a foreign country for political favors. that's all he was concerned about. that's not a quid pro quo, but it is a very disturbing thing. it was to him, and it may be to congress as well. so the issue of quid pro quo is one that, you know, has evolved from the evidence, but there is certainly no l

>> well, john bolton, let's be clear, john bolton is not a hero of the democrats or liberals.about as conservative as they come. but a conservative rliberal is not really the issue. the issue is what's going to happen to a president that is free-lancing with a rogue secretary of state and everybody is beginning to ask follow the money. this is what we heard in the nixon watergate hearing. >> i'm curious about your view of the bolton thing, though. >> well, bolton is somebody who is close to the president. the president hired. and for bolton to say this is going to be a hand grenade that could blowup, be careful, that is very, very significant because bolton has seen exactly what's going on, bolton also has named other people inside the white house, the chief of staff is part of what might be a conspiracy. bolton names him as part of something that's going on that could blowup in everybody's f e face. i think just stepping back from all of this t my only concern, honestly, is that there is also evidence. we already know that the president of the united states, and there is a tr

a source tells nbc news that she told lawmakers that after john bolton learned of the efforts to get ukraine's government to investigate president trump's political ponlopponents, boltond hill that he wanted no part fortunate, quotof the, quote, drug deal. bolton called giuliani a, quote, hand grenade and told her to report the situation to the national security adviser's top lawyer. details of her testimony were first reported by the new york times. hill also reportedly told lawmakers that giuliani ran a shadow foreign policy on ukraine and that she considered what was happening to be a clear counterintelligence risk to the united states. people familiar with her testimony tell "the washington post" that hill told lawmakers giuliani's policies circumvented u.s. officials and career diplomats in order to personally benefit president trump and was not coordinated with the officials responsible for carrying out u.s. foreign policy. it's just incredible. and nbc news also learned that the white house tried to limit hill's testimony by raising the issue of executive privilege. in response

why are you summoning john bolton out? does that mean the intelligence hearing is nearing the end of the key deposition phase? >> let me just say this, in a short period of time, i think it's been slightly over a month now, a lot has happened. >> yeah. >> what we do know if we start with the whistleblower's report, quickly turned to the readout released by the white house and we look at the overwhelming clear and convincing corroborative testimony from our witnesses that have come before us. the evidence is pretty clear that the president abused his power, that the president attempted to coerce a foreign power to interfere in our election, that the president really betrayed his oath of office and the american people, that the president also has instructed -- obstructed justice and continues to obstruct justice by trying to get people not to appear. then is also involved in a coverup. the question that still remains as we continue to do our work is really what do we want to do about it? as you well know, tomorrow we will be

president donald trump gathers steam investigators and by former national security advisor john bolton to testify. plus policing in online hate speech the german government announcing new proposals to stop the spread of extremist views on the internet. i'm called aspen welcome to the program chile has called off 2 major international summits it's a new setback for embattled president sebastian pinera who says he needs to focus on restoring calm amid days of mass protests at least 18 people have now died during the unrest now new venues will need to be found for the cop $25.00 climate summit and the apec trade summit which was scheduled to bring together world leaders including u.s. president donald trump and china's xi jinping. days chile's capital santiago has resembled a war zone. protesters throwing rocks and stones at police. they responding in kind with water cannon. tear gas and more. it's against this backdrop that chile's embattled president has taken a decision he must regret. to cancel hosting not one but 2 upcoming international summits sent the most 11 that will throw food

security adviser john bolton. they are confirming now that bolton's lawyers have had talks with investigating committees about a possible deposition. other witnesses place bolton at or near the center of several key conversations about security aid withheld from ukraine. bolton deputy fiona hill notably saying that her boss, mr. bolton, called mr. rudy giuliani, quote, a hand grenade and compared his foreign policy to, quote, a drug deal. bolton would be a powerful add to a list that already includes current officials. those inside accounts so far have been damning and they are urging efforts at the white house now to put together a better defense strategy. their strategy is telling. senator lindsey graham, for example, sponsoring a resolution that calls the house inquiry unfair, a process argument, not a defense of the president's conduct. >> i'm not here to tell you that donald trump has done nothing wrong. i'm not here to tell you anything other than that the way they're going about it is really dangerous for th

john bolton a few hours ago saying giuliani was a hand grenade. there was a secret deal being cooked up between the white house chief of staff and giuliani over pressuring ukraine over biden. all of this stuff is tremendously -- i mean, i don't know another word for it, but evil. and the idea that the president is going to win by attacking the impeachment investigation, we had a president in our lifetime who tried it, president nixon. it didn't turn out too well for him. >> neal, do you have reason to believe that the evidence this time around will be so compelling and this story will be so plainly obvious and easy to follow that lawmakers, who so far have not been turned, will ultimately be turned against the president? >> yes. the evidence is all already there. this isn't a case like mueller where you need to have 22 months of investigation. these are the president's own words, his own documents. indeed, he even just said on the white house lawn he said he would do it again and seek information from china. we now know this say president who has

rudy giuliani also saying it's really ironic that john bolton is calling anyone else a hand grena grenade, when john is described by many as an atomic bomb. so, you see what once was a team working in the direction of the president now come ago part at the seams, hallie. >> yeah, that says it, josh letterman. thank you for that. great reporting. can't wait to see what you dig up on george kent's deposition. thank you. i'm going to bring in someone who is going to be in the room for that, congresswoman jackie sprooe spire. i know you're about to head into that room. thank you for spending it with us. >> thank you. >> what is the one question you have for george kent? >> so, i want to have a confirmation what we heard from fiona hill yesterday and from the former ambassador. i think he can become a very credible with the tons either augment when the ambassador said last week and add more substance to it. he is still presently within the administration, within the state department. i think these are true heroes, because they are not being bullied by the president who is trying to suggest tha

a day after john bolton abruptly resigned and two days after u.s. ambassador to the european union gordon sondland told president trump that concerns were being raised that his actions amounted to a quid pro quo. >> there was no quid pro quo at all. >> reporter: the release of the money to ukraine wasn't only from senator portman but by the end of september the funds would have to be given to ukraine or they would get nothing at all and so they urged the president to send the money and the president agreed but not before grumbling the u.s. was getting a bad deal. jake. >> alex marquardt starting us off. toluse, let me start with you. according to bill taylor's testimony this week, tim morrison, the white house official said he had a, quote, sinking feeling, in which the president insists that the ukrainian president needed to go to a microphone and saying he was opening an investigation into the bidens and this is another person backing up a key part of the testimony. >> this could be pretty damaging testimony for the white house a current white hou

pivot to john bolton for you. lawyering for bolton are in talks about a possible closed-door deposition keeping in mind also swirling around this period of time john bolton let go from duties as national security adviser. some republican sources admitted bill taylor's testimony was a game-changer but bolton would be next level. why? so i think that bolton kind of encapsulates why this is not what happened with the mueller report. the mueller report was about kind of these indirect and not establishable contacts between the trump campaign, at least trump himself and russia. the witnesses coming in wb often hostile and not wanting to come in or if they did they could be characterized as biased like michael cohen under criminal investigation themselves. ultimately about conduct during the campaign. this is all very different. these are trump's own people. his own appointees, republicans voluntarily coming in. they are not under clouds of investigation themselves. show it's harder to say, oh, they're trying to get a de

what does john bolton want? do you have any idea? >> i don't know what he wants, but i can assume what he could want which is retribution. i mean, he -- remember, he went out of the white house in a typical trump administration fashion which was it was not pretty, it was not amicable. they were, you know, fighting over twitter. and john bolton was not happy. and was not happy on a policy level. was also not happy on a personal level. he was not getting along with some key people in the white house. and he felt that he was right. so if he wants to grind that ax, there is no bigger platform and no more important stage for him to do it. >> there was also reporting he was ousted from the white house. he was frustrated about the ukraine stuff. he might not just have an ax to grind, he might have an actual policy principle he wants to get across. >> listen. i'm far from a john bolton fan, that being said this guy is a true conservative when it comes to foreign policy. he is an ideologue. we've got a purported republican president in the wh

probably john bolton is, too, even though i don't agree with his views on a lot of stuff. we all know representative pompeo, when he was in the house, would be incensed with this defiance of congressional prerogatives. when he ran the benghazi hearings, many believe, extremely unfairly and in a partisan and biased way, he wanted everything to come out. now he's ducking, hiding. we need representative pompeo back here, the one who said things should be made public when it was a different administration. , not onlytters worse is secretary pompeo ducking, but maybe he is complicit in all of this. his name has surfaced on multiple occasions in the tail of the administration's very questionable dealings with ukraine. for instance, ambassador taylor's written statement states on august 20 ninth, at the suggestion of national security advisor john bolton -- on august 29, at the secretary of national security -- at the suggestion of national security advisor john bolton, the state department stonewalling creates the appearance that the secretary is covering up not only for the pre

and john bolton's people left, john bolton left, and he was on the july 25th phone call, he heard itis own ears and he was mentioned 15 times in the opening statement. but what our reporting is, he is a bit of a wildcard, and some of the reporting is he may testify that he did hear that favor, that the president wanted, the deal that he wanted struck with ukraine, in terms of getting some dirt on the bidens, but that he wasn't necessarily, he didn't necessarily immediately hear it as wrong. so we just don't know what he will say behind closed doors. >> we don't know until actually we see the deposition what his point of view is. but i think he remains a very valuable witness here. taking a step back, the nsc, the national security council, is in effect, a coordinating council. they work, it was created to coordinate between state, between defense, between the intelligence agencies, so he was in a unique position to know what everyone was doing. not only what bill taylor was doing and what mike pompeo was doing but what rudy giuliani was doing. so i think the democrats will be interes

>> and john bolton is formally asked to testify. >> you know, john wasn't in line with what we were doing. >> plus new reporting on the origins of trump's quid pro quo with ukraine, and why even republicans are raising alarms at the trump scheme to install an anti-immigrant hardliner at dhs. >> you and mr. trump don't want anyone who looks or talks differently than caucasian americans to be allowed into this country. >> that's false. >> i'm sorry, please don't interrupt me. >> when "all in" starts now. >> i am not a white supremacist, as you alluded. >>> good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. the impeachment of president donald j. trump is taking another major step forward today. the house rules committee is preparing to vote on a resolution laying out the procedures for the next big steps in the inquiry including public hearings. they are literally convening right now to do that as we speak. the full house is then expected to vote on the resolution tomorrow. legislators have already heard dozens of hours of private testimony that continues to be more and more damning for the presid

might we see this same strategy deployed with john bolton? >> it very well could be the same strategy. the primary difference in these two men is bolton is no longer part of the administration. he left under somewhat notorious and adverse circumstances. it's probably reasonable to assume he doesn't hold the president in high regard at the moment. so he may have a stronger personal motivation to get in front of the committee and tell them what he knows we've also heard that from other witnesses that he objected to what he saw, he was concerned about the infamous drug deal and the interactions of rudy giuliani. he may have a story he wants to get off his chest. i don't know that we've heard similar descriptions about kupperman. it is completely logical that the committee would pursue his testimony because he's a primary witness to the phone call itself. i think they have to go down this alley and see if they can get him in front of them, but ultimately if he doesn't come in, this eprobabey probably can without him. >> in case people are like dru

>> kupperman is the deputy of john bolton. we know from previous testimony that john bolton had deep reservations of the policy of ukraine. and also the fact that rudy giuliani was so deeply involved in this, congressional investigators wanted and interested in kupperman. is kupperman is ever going to show? he's saying he's between a rock and a hard place. he does not want to defy his former boss. he does not want to defy the congress who's come peming him to testify. he puts the questions into the courts. the democrats have no patience for the courts. they'll file this some sort of bucket and using it as more evidence that the administration is trying to withhold information from congress. >> let's talk about somebody who did show up over the weekend. that was phillip reeker. what did he have to say in his testimony on saturday? >> his job was to oversees the ukraine policy for the united states, he was stationed overseas. his first week on the job was back in job of a smeared campaign being run by rudy giuliani in conservati

cnn, stevenson ranch, california. >>> next, john bolton negotiating possible testimony in the impeachmentbe against president trump. could he end up being president trump's john dean? our 18-year-old was in an accident. when i called usaa, it was that voice asking me, "is your daughter ok?" that's where i felt relief. we're the rivera family and we plan to be with usaa for life. see how much you can save with usaa insurance. see how much you can save performance comes in lots of flavors. ♪ (dramatic orchestra) there's the amped-up, over-tuned, feeding-frenzy-of sheet-metal-kind. and then there's performance that just leaves you feeling better as a result. that's the kind lincoln's about. ♪ and i...was...shocked. right away, called my mom, called my sisters. i'm from cameroon, congo, and...the bantu people. i had ivory coast, and ghana...togo. i was grateful... i just felt more connected... to who i am. greater details. richer stories. and now with health insights. get your dna kit at ancestry.com. just it just takes a lothat's happeninof the burdener body, of diabetes management off my sh

and tim morrison worked directly for john bolton. i believe both of them would have information about the concerns that career officials were expressing about this quid pro quo. >> and when it comes to bolton, his attorneys have actually been talking with house democrats. where does an appearance by him stand at this point? >> i'm hopeful. i believe that john bolton wants to testify to clear his own name. i mean, from all the public reports, we see that john bolton was sounding the alarm about this and was very uncomfortable with what was going on. i have disagreed with john bolton very publicly on many foreign policy issues, but i have never questioned his integrity in following the rules, and he is a lawyer, he was a yale-educated lawyer. you can see why john bolton wouldn't want to be part of some kind of conspiracy, and so my hope is he will want to vindicate his own name. >> are we going to see public hearings in november? by the middle of november, do you think? >> we will see public hearings. the argument that the house isn't

>> then as new testimony brings trump's chief of staff into the scandal what did john bolton know? >> john wasn't in line when what we were doing. >> former national security advisor susan rice joins me to talk impeachment, trump and the situation in syria. >> this is bat ple[ bleep ] cra. >> and house democrats return with a formal impeachment inquiry on the table. >> let's impeach the president, isn't that a good idea? >> when "all in" starts now. good evening from new york. i'm joy reid. chris hayes is in ohio covering tonight's debate. well, at this point it's not a question of if the president of the united states, donald trump, committed an impeachable offense. he's already admitted to it in public statements and in documents that the white house itself released. we know that when the president of ukraine said that he wanted to buy more american weapons to protect his country from military aggression by russia, donald trump immediately responded, i want you to do us a favor, though. and then he proceeded to ask that ukraine investigate former vice president joe biden's son and

that's how she describes what john bolton said. >> exactly. and that suggests that -- we've already known that trump and giuliani have been working together on this. this suggests that trump has been trying to implicate, if you will, deliberately or not, as many other people as possible. you already have the secretary of state, the energy secretary, the vice president, and now we have the chief of staff getting involved. these are people who the house can try to call to testify, putting the white house in a difficult position of whether to stonewall and pay a political price for it or to allow these very senior officials to testify and risk that they will tell the truth. >> elliott, each day we're getting new information if someone is testifying on the hill, but when you look now as these pieces of the puzzle are being put together, what is sort of your overview of what's happening here? >> what you're seeing is the remarkable discipline of the house democrats. even look at yesterday with fiona hill's testimony, the very few leaks that came ou

-- >> did you say john dean or john bolton?> he may be called to make a statement. >> look, i think in many ways john bolton holds the keys to the kingdom here. and i don't know if he'll testify in public. my guess is he might. and it could be his revenge on donald trump. but while he wasn't on the fateful phone call with president zelensky and asking questions why wasn't he on the call but he could give the insider view of ukraine policy. and how the national security team viewed what ought to be done in ukraine. and how the freelancer rudy giuliani in tandem with the president reviewed ought to be done in ukraine. we know that bolton is anti-putin, anti-russia and this must have driven him crazy. and look at the time line. it may be nothing. but bolton was fired or resigned on september 10th. and the ukraine aid money was released on september 11th. now i don't know that there is any relationship but i think that question ought to be asked to him. and don't forget, he was also the guy who called it a drug deal when ambassador