one thing that -- for example john c. calhoun wrestled with, how do you maintain what he would have called equality, equal treatment in all the ways that matter, within a union where demographics were tilting power toward the nonslave holding states. >> that's, of course, the great nightmare of the slave holders. and their need to control, in fact to capture -- which is precisely what they did, because the federal government was dominated by slave holders throughout its existence up to the civil war. so much so that by the time lincoln comes along, and says, maybe we should agree not to let the area of the slave states expand, then that's too much. that's violating the basic idea of union. here's the problem, i think it's what we would try to reconcile as we talk about the problem of union, how can you have equality or liberty, you might put it autonomy independence and union? is there attention between them? that's what i mean by -- >> and where do -- what's the line between compromise and coercion, they would have argued about