ga take a closer look at the questions the statements raise, with john carlin. he was a longtime justice department official and federal prosecutor, and now works in private practice. and rick hasen, election law expert and professor at the university of cafornia irvine school of law. and, gentlemen, we welcome both of you back to the program. rick hasen, i'm going to start withou. we just heard a few minutes ago in that piece we put together rudy giuliani tell the anchors at fox news, he said there was no campaign violation, everything was done proper. how do you see it? >> well, i think it's a really open queriion. t now, what it looks like is that michael cohen gave a loan to donald trump, and if that was a campaign-related loan, then that had to be reported on campaign finance forms and each time the loan was paid back, the payment had to be put in there. it's all going to turn on what did trp foe, whe did he know it and was this campaign related, was the motive to he the campaign or to help trump so while we don't know enough to know whether or not there's

>> i believe john carlin at doj, jim clapper.ad detailed knowledge of course comey knew what was going on in this. there was a very small working group of people involved in this political hit job on donald trump. at this point here's the problem, brian, the reason brennan is panicking and a lot of others have gone silent, they are not just worried about reputational harm. brennan has disgraced himself. he knows history is not kind to him. they are worried about staying out of jail there were criminal leaks here. felonious criminal leaks of information someone was responsible. abby: we may just be scratching the surface at this point. do you remember that oakland mayor libby schaaf? remember back in february she warned people in her area, illegals about an ice raid coming and do what you need to do to protect yourself? he mentioned her in the round table when he had mayors and law enforcement talking about sanctuary cities in california. spoke about this mayor. responding to the president couple days ago in "the washington post"