criminal groups for their intelligence ends and protecting them from law enforcement. >> stahl: john carlinthe assistant attorney general for national security during the obama administration, echoes what current u.s. officials have confirmed to us about the russians. so, the intelligence agencies are what, piggybacking on the criminal enterprise? >> carlin: increasingly, you cannot tell which is which, when it comes to the criminal and the intelligence agency. so one day, the same crook may be doing something purely to make a buck. but that same crook may be directed by a trained intelligence operative using the sa tools and techniques to steal information from them for the goals of the state. >> stahl: why would the government rely on crooks? they could do their own intelligence. >> carlin: by relying increasingly on criminals and the tools that they use, they make it really difficult to figure out who did it. they want to hide their tracks. >> stahl: for years, they were able to hide their tracks behind the criminal exploits of this russian hacker, evgeniy bogachev, one of the f.b.i.'s "

john carlin, thank you very much and leslie, thank you. important topic. we'll see what comes, appreciate it >>> a little more than an hour to go until the closing bell s&p 500 with the all time high as well. the record breaking run as well next on "power lunch." i'm working to keep the fire going for another 150 years. ♪ for beauty that begins with nature. ♪ to make connections of a different kind. at adp we're designing a better way to work, so you can achieve what you're working for. your daily dashboard from fidelity. a visual snapshot of your investments. key portfolio events. all in one place. because when it's decision time... you need decision tech. only from fidelity. monitor their blood glucose every day. which means they have to stop. and stick their fingers. repeatedly. today, life-changing technology from abbott makes it possible to track glucose levels. without drawing a drop of blood, again and again. the most personal technology, is technology with the power to change your life. life. to the fullest. >>> markets continue to trade higher get

melissa murray, maya wiley, john carlin, and senator blumenthal, my thanks to each of you. i have an excellent panel waiting on the other issue to get to, what they call volume one. the discussion of the election conspiracy and the russian hacking. mueller writes, quote, we applied framework of conspiracy law, not concept of, quote, collusion. collusion is not a specific offense, mueller writes, or theory of liability, and thus special counsel's office focused on conspiracy as defined in federal law. that's a pretty straightforward point. if you have been watching this news coverage, one way or the other, if you think it is great news that donald trump was ultimately not charged with conspiracy or you thought there was conspiracy or you're critical of the president, by now many people, including nonlawyers understand that conspiracy point in mueller's report. and yet take a look at what attorney general barr said today, using the word collusion instead of conspiracy at his announcement. >> the special counsel found no collusion by any americans. in other words, there was no

that the fbi broke the law and that the people at the head of the justice department, sally yates, john carlinthe assistant attorney general come on all knew about it, and applied to te court. the fisa court about it. >> mike: robert, if you were advising jim comey, sally yates, some of these other folks we've heard so much about, would you tell them to lawyer up? >> [laughs] >> not to be funny about it but that is an understatement. the core of this, joe is absolutely right. what i want to know is who at the justice department knew about what disclosures were going to be made to the fisa court and who specifically withheld information because they did know about the origins and the derivation of the steele dossier. how come the political connections of the clinton campaign wasn't disclosed at least in a footnote in the fisa application? there were people at the justice department to know about that, i think the point of the investigation, who knew it, when did they know it, and why didn't that information make it in to the fisa application, which was delivered to the court. look, we've all re

carlin over on the left. she is an associate professor of the practice of strategic studies at johns hopkins school of advanced international studies. i always have a hard time with all of these acronyms. she's also in terms of the school director, or the director of the school strategic studies program and the executive director of the meryl center of strategic studies, and before this, she spent a long time at d.o.d., worked for five u.s. secretaries of defense, and a number of different position, including on the middle east, and also in the last position as deputy assistant secretary of defense for strategy and force deployment. next to her we have ken pollock, anybody who is following the mid east and paying attention to think tank scholars for the last 20 years know who ken is. he doesn't need much introduction. an american scholar at the american enterprise institute and brookings center and director of the sabban center and distinguished government career including a couple of tours at the nsc, working on various middle east issues in time with the years at the cia. >> and finally next to me we have br