and we were all at the meeting recently when italian defense minister john depaulo was in town and what he said is member nations ought to look to nato and what the alliance decides to shape their own defense planning as individual member nations. how likely is it that countries will do what italy did and i would dare say france and the u.k., of looking at nato and then building a military that fits into that? >> at the moment it doesn't look terribly promising. but there are several things to look at. one, how to -- how do you address nato, same standards, same language, defense industry working together, having an integrated military command structure against the day when something has to be done. a year ago if we were sitting here and you had asked me is nato going to play a decisive role in a place call libya, i would ask you what you were smoking. so we don't know. but there will be security requirements and the best instrument in the world to take those on is called nato. >> and that goes to john paulo's point which is don't repert back to a territorial defense force, remain with