we have this statement from john dowd. what's your take on what's being said here?well, aaron, i agree with everything that ken just related, and, you know, i think this is self preservation by don mcgann. if he didn't fully cooperate, if he tried to either conceal or stonewall or deceive, he would probably find himself exactly where george pafound himself. if we look just to the filing yesterday by the special counsel's office by the george papadopoulos case, i think it should be mandatory reading for everybody who really wants to see what's been going on here, because what they set out in just the second paragraph, and i've got the memorandum right here is, papadopoulos engaged in outreach to russia on behalf of the trump campaign. that's paragraph two, and, aaron, that in a word is collusion. and what i don't think don mcgann wanted to find himself on the receiving end of is, you know, some suggestion that he had stonewalled or was unwilling to provide truthful, nonprivileged information to the special counsel on all of the topics that ken was just talking about.

it makes abundantly clear that the strategy was created by ty cobb and john dowd. christy seems to be on board with the strategy. let's watch him from yesterday. >> this shows what a c-level the president had at the beginning in ty cobb and john dowd. you never waive that, absolutely not. it put don mcgahn in an impossible situation. once you waive that privilege, turnover all the documents, don mcgahn has no choice then but to go in and answer everything, every question they can ask him. and this is not in the president's interest. it wasn't in the president's interest. if he had gotten good legal advice at the time, he would have done something a little less, i'm confident it's bad legal advice, bad lawyering, and this is the result of it. >> so, chris christie obviously on the save don mcgahn team. is it going to work? >> well, look, he makes a point there in terms of obviously not wanting don mcgahn to go in there because he could provide insight into what the thinking was behind all these different decisions. if you're in the room when the president is making

, john dowd. we're going to go in, open policy, et cetera, because that's going to wrap it up. well, that's like running a football and getting stuff ted line of scrimmage. it didn't work out as well as they wanted to. so it was a tough call. legally, from my lens, i thought it was very surprising they would go in there and waive privilege like that. >> clearly, mcgahn's folks, it was absolutely stunning. and the other astonish thing is mcgahn and his lawyer were worried because of a conversation that had been overheard. >> right. >> that trump is actually setting mcgahn up. said if there was going to be something about obstruction, it was going to mcgahn and not to trump himself. but they sent him out to cooperate fully. he talked to them for more than 30 hours. what are the chance there's nothing in there? >> this is a story that's capable of two wildly different interpretations. they say, oh, my god, he was there 30 hours. but the flip side is wait, he was there 30 hours. they were being cooper

>> i think that through john dowd we have a pretty good sense of it.ohn dowd yesterday said, i'll use his words rather than i mean, that mcgahn was a strong witness for the president. so i don't need to know much more about that. also, they don't need to know what the president is going to say because the president has said it. and we've told them that we would stipulate what the president has said is the president's true belief that he did nothing wrong, that he wasn't involved in collusion, that he wasn't involved in obstruction. they have yet to pro pound a question to us, give us a question where there is not an answer to it already by the president of the united states. so the only reason they could possibly want the president of the united states is because they are desperate for some kind of charge they can hang their hat on. they don't have collusion or conspiracy, as brennan pointed out, and they -- >> how do you know that? you say this so definitively. how do you know they don't? >> i know they don't because, look, this whole mcgahn thing lea

>> i think through john dowd, we had a good sense of it, john dowd said, i'll use his words, mcgahn was a strong witness to the president. i don't need to know more about that. >> reporter: the mayor ignores a key point where it talks about the president's lawyers actually have no idea the depth of the conversations between don mcgahn with the special counsel team and what they covered. they agreed to mcgahn to sit for the conversations and waived attorney/client privilege. they had no idea what don mcgahn would say when he sat down with the special counsel's team. there are few people who have insight into the president's conduct especially with the russia probe for the past year and a half. the white house doesn't know how to handle this and what it could mean for the investigation going forward. dave and christine. >> ryan, thank you. >>> trump attorney rudy giuliani has a new fact style explanation for keeping the president away from robert mueller. listen to what he told nbc about not allowing the special counsel to rush mr. trump to testifying. >> when you tell me he should testif

even to the extent that rudy giuliani referenced john dowd, dowd only has it from mcgahn. so we only have one side of the conversation. i don't think mcgahn went in there to hurt the president, but i don't think he went in to help him. i do believe that he's savvy enough to know what a mistake it would be to lie to prosecutors, and i figure he probably went in there to simply articulate the facts as he understood them and perhaps make sure that key facts that would clear him from any suspicion were included in the conversation. >> ross, it's your view that rudy giuliani was out in the talk shows this morning, is he just trying to look cool about it, look like they're not at all worried by saying, you know, he thinks he knows and believes that mcgahn was a strong witness for the president? will they ever really know in detail from don mcgahn what he said? he's a witness. he can't very well go back and say this is everything that i said, can he? >> the way it works is it's very, very likely that mcgahn's lawyer reported back to the president's lawyer under a joint defense ag

at least in his response to today's report -- john dowd, excuse me. but it appears once the open book policy started, if you will, or around that time, when done mcgahn was being open about -- being open about his feelings with this case with mueller, things started to accelerate. could it be that here don mcgahn had offered, if you will, the kindling to where we're at today in the mule he is investigation. >> i don't want to speculate. but as the other guests have said, he was in the room for all of this and so what he's giving mueller is direct firsthand knowledge of key conversations that the president had. he's been in the oval office when president trump has blown up at attorney general jeff sessions for not recusing himself from the russia investigation. he was ints matt-- he was invole decision to fire james comey and i believe he argued against it and he could say this is what happened and the time line and people in the oval and how the president reacted. and he is a washington veteran. he's a lawyer. so he really know what he can and can't s

but trump's former lead counsel in the russia probe, john dowd, in reaction to this report saying this -- the "times" report is, quote, complete fiction while claiming don mcghan was a strong witness for the president, john dowd. for more, msnbc's jeff ben tet white house, nbc news and msnbc legal analyst, senior fellow and government toids at the bookings institution, and editor and chief, carrie johnson, and jeff mason, reuters correspondent. we've had development in the last hour, reaction to the report that's come out so far. what? >> richard, the top-line takeaway from "the new york times" report is the white house counsel don mcghan, over the fear that the white house was setting him up to take the fall over any obstruction of justice, is now cooperating with the special counsel. it's a fairly breathtaking revelation. "the new york times" is reporting that in a series of interviews totaling some 30 hours, mcgann is telling the special counsel about the president's outrage, his anger over the russia investigation and how he has urged mcgann to respond to it. this includes things l

this all started or got prompted by ken vogel, a "new york times" reporter overhearing john dowd andtalking in a restaurant in d.c. about the case last fall in september 2017 and them talking about mcgahn and saying mcgahn doesn't want to cooperate as extensively as we do. he wants to talk about executive privilege, and then saying that mcgahn has papers hidden away in a safe. so "the times" reports that mcgahn and his attorneys took that to mean he was seriously legally liable here, that the president could put him in some real legal jeopardy, so he went in and told them absolutely everything. do you think the president fully understood or his legal team fully understood what mcgahn was going in to do here, that it was really them saying, oh, we have nothing to hide? >> well, first of all, we don't really know if the conversation between cobb and dowd that was reported in "the times" really was the motivating factor for mcgahn. it's hard for me to believe that he would have gone in against the opposition of cobb and dowd. here's what i think really went on. ty cobb and john dowd tho

>> this was ty cobb and john dowd who wanted an open door policy.nted at the very beginning to be as open and transparent and waive all of the privileges. that was the beginning. now really cannot the legal counsel for donald trump and they are doing the exact opposite. they don't want people to talk. they actually think there was a mistake made with don mcgahn. things have changed over the course of the last year and a half in what was obvious to so many people as there's nothing to hide that than talk and now people are beginning to worry there may be something to hide. i think what don mcgahn is looking to do is cover his proverbial. i think that is what you see here was when we believe we don't know. he wants to make sure that he survives the trump administration and not so interesting about what happens with mueller. >> it's amazing the historical figures resurfacing. allusions to mccarthyism, watergate. john dean himself treating about this vein i doubt the president has any idea what he is told mueller. also nixon knew i was meeting with pros

that was the strategy coming from john dowd. maybe they didn't know to what extent we were just describing that don mcgann was speaking with mueller and that might have surprised them. >>> he threw cabinet member and friend after friend under the bus. he has no loyalty to anyone. if he is doing this out of self-preservation, i think that's a sign he understands just how corrupt and how broken this white house is and i have to contradict my old boss rudy giuliani when i say that it is not the special counsel's office leaking. they have been as silent as the tomb. they are not talking to reporters. they are not leaking. they're not putting things out there. on the obstruction side of this equation which, you know, mcgann obviously is a bright man who values his future. so he's going sto escape from the -- to escape from the radiation area. >> rick, you're talking about the conversation that rudy giuliani had on meet the press and he said this is the mueller team. that is leaking the information for the "new york times" report. you

>> i think that through, through john dowd we have a good sense of it, and john dowd yesterday said, and i will use his words rather than mine that the mcgahn was a strong witness for the president, and i don't need to nknow much more about that. >> but what the white house has not really responded to was the assertion in "the new york times" report that when don mcgahn learned of the counsel for the president, his private attorney suggesting that he meet with the special kocounsel and that he was concerned that perhaps he was being setup, and this is a way for them to perhaps put him on the hook for any obstruction of justice charges that the special counsel discovered and that is when he got his own personal attorney and advised by his own personal attorney to handle the situation, and don mcgahn's personal attorney has been clear this weekend, he did not go into the interviews with the goal of providing incriminating information, but no doubt he has been a corroborating witness, and the attorney for don mcgahn has said that he was very honest as anyone should be when talking to a

john dowd and ty cobb did not seek to find out. >> why not? that seems curious. >> i can't speak to why they did not think that was worth doing but almost every lawyer i have spoken with has been aghast that that is how the process went. >> then, explain to reporting that after your initial reporting about the accounting he gave, more than any of us had known, that the white house seemed to be caught off guard by that. >> well, the white house was not fully aware as you just noted of what exactly was said by mcgahn in the interviews and they really didn't -- there's a difference between the white house and the lawyers. a lot of people in the white house are just fine not knowing what was said because they don't want to know and don't want to be sucked further into this. trump's lawyers and some advisers did not know. believe they have known -- it is only becoming clear since our story that a lot more went on than they realized or they had been led to believe by mcgahn's lawyer. they are now in a bit of a scramble to figure it out. i'm not sure

>> i think that through john dowd we have a pretty good sense of it. john dowd yesterday said, i'll use his words rather than i mean, mcgahn was a strong witness for president. i don't need to know much more about that. >> white house counsel don mcgahn has extraordinary access to the commander in chief and he has been witness to key moments in this presidency. he was there when comey was fired. he heard trump's constant criticism of attorney general jeff sessions following his recusal from the russia investigation. and reportedly threatened to quit when donald trump asked him to fire robert mueller and then told him to lie about donald trump asking him to fire robert mueller when "the new york times" found out. in a statement that did nothing to tamp down speculation mcgahn's attorney said this. president trump through counsel declined to assert any privilege over mr. mcgahn's testimony. so mr. mcgahn answered the special counsel team's questions folsomly and honestly as any person interviewed by federal investigators must. the big question we're aski

how has mueller not told the truth to john dowd and why is he angry?e, america's blue-collar worker, a chance to do a stroll with music legend john rich. we walked down broadway in beautiful nashville, tennessee and end up at his bar. who would have thought? it is fun, i hope. watch it. i'm taking attendance. thank you. rob: i have walked down broadway in nashville. >> reporter: with john rich? rob: we will be right back. are we going to read this too? jillian: get out of jail free card. rob: i thought we were going. jillian: suspected no longer has to pay bail. how could you not want to bring in carly shimkus after the break? ♪ i'll never find a safe used car. start at the new carfax.com show me minivans with no reported accidents. boom. love it. [struggles] show me the carfax. start your used car search at the all-new carfax.com. jillian: welcome back. she wants to abolish ice, universal rent control. jillian: cynthia nixon says her debate room with andrew cuomo needs to be warmed up beforehand because cold rooms are sexist. a very interesting idea s

he is quite secure na there is nothing in the testimony to hurt the president, and john dowd told you that when he said that he was a strong witness for the president. >> and that is exactly what the president is saying as well. he is arguing that this is a transparent move by his legal team to show that he has nothing to hide. this is what the president tweeted today, the failing new york times wrote a fake piece implying that the because white house counsel don mcgahn was giving hours of counsel he must be a john dean type rat, and talking about the figure in the nixon and watergate scandal. but i allowed him and others to testify, and i didn't have to, but i have knotting the to hide. and it was john dean with who responded on twitter to what the president had to say and he said in part, nixon knew that i was meeting with the prosecutors because i told him. however, he didn't think that i would tell them the truth. and this is what seems to be where the rub is, ana, and what exactly did don mcgahn tell the special counsel. his attorneys are making it clear that he did not go in the

. >> john dowd got a political version of what mcgahn said during that period of time. john, of course, because of what happened over the weekend, went through it thoroughly. i've been on the phone with him for hours and gone over it with him. when it first came out, i didn't know the details of what mcgahn said. now do i. i knew not to worry because if the president said anything criminal to the counsel of the white house, mcgahn wouldn't be there. as a matter of legal he thinkics and possibly even law, he would have to quit. he's a very careful and ethical guy. >> the following may further explain why the president may indeed have reap to be rattled about mcgahn. earlier tie this network, steve schmidt told nicole wallace about the don mcgahn he knows. >> i believe that don mcgahn told bob mueller the truth. every single thing that don mcgahn has seen, has heard, has been a witness to, he told the special counsel. i was next door to don mcgahn at the national republican congressional committee. he was my next door neighbor of i've known don for years. i like don mcgahn

>> i think that through john dowd, we have have a a pretty good sense, john dowd said yesterday, i'll use his words, mcgahn was a strong witness for the president. i don't teed to know much more than that. >> this teams to be cleared up. while the president agonizing of what he called a rat inside the white house, although he says he wasn't one, his former employee michael cohen is about to face charges for $20 million in bank fraud, his attorney says he's been in up the with, you guessed it, howard dean on how to flip on the president the jury deliberates over paul manafort, they're still deliberating they ended deliberation today the president publicly defended manafort and attacked the prosecution, which certainly looks a lot like an attempt to taint the jury pool. now, get this, the president threatening to go further, telling reuters, he has chosen not to be involved in the mueller probe, but is totally allowed to be if he wanted to i've decided to stay out, now i don't have to, i could do whatever, i could run it. i am joined be aformer associate white house counsel under presid

at john dowd who spoke with the attorney william burke is telling fox news, don mcgann is a very strong witness for the president. former federal prosecutor andy mccarthy said the lengthy conversation he had with white house counsel may make the prospect of interviewing the president even more remote. >> he needs to get past the hurdle that he has a need to speak to the president. i don't see how he gets past that if he is talked to a lawyer that can tell them what the president was thinking and what he was saying when he made the decisions that mueller is looking at. >> the president's attorneys have yet to hear back from mueller on the response to his conditions for an interview and a sterile fear or a perjury trap. the wind laying out that argument sunday, rudy giuliani got trapped in his own language. >> when you tell me that he should testify because he's going to tell the truth, that he shouldn't worry, that's so silly, because of somebody's version of the truth, not the truth. >> i don't mean to -- that's not truth. >> no, it isn't true, truth isn't truth. >> that comment got a s

it's john dowd who is the president's lawyer at the time today said loudly and clearly. >> right. >>> don mcgahn was the strongest witness for the president. meaning he completely gave testimony that said that the president didn't do anything wrong, which the president didn't do. he didn't do anything wrong. >> reporter: now mcgahn's attorney told our colleague ryan nobles that mcgahn answered so many of the investigator's answer because trump declined to exert executive privilege over his counsel's testimony. the relationship between trump and his white house counsel has at times than contentious but the white house is denying that his collaboration with the investigators is producing any more strain on their relationship. >> thank you, sarah westwood, there in new jersey. >>> lynn sweet is with us and ross garber, cnn legal analyst. thank you both for being here. i want to listen, if i could, please, to more of what rudy giuliani said last night. let's listen to what he was talking about, about the best analysis of the mueller investigation thus far. >> i think the best analysis wo

>> i think that through john dowd, we have a pretty good sense of it.dowd yesterday said, i'll use his words rather than mine, that mcgahn was a strong witness for the president. i don't need to know much more about that. >> all right. the president tweeting out in part, the failing "new york times" wrote a story that made it seem like the white house counsel had turned on the president, when in fact it is just the opposite. then going on saying, study the late joseph mccarthy because we are now in period with mueller and his gang that make joseph mccarthy look like a baby. rigged witch hunt. i want to bring back shan wu, a cnn legal analyst, former federal prosecutor, and former lawyer for rick gates. jack quinn also joining us, a cnn legal analyst and former white house counsel in the clinton administration. jack, you first. the white house is not refuting that don mcgahn, you know, gave testimony. in fact, even saying the white house actually encouraged it. but with the president now coming out and being very critical of the report, as though the rep

john dowd insists this is a good strategy, he said he being mcgahn was a strong witness for the president's case and the strategy is working. his thinking behind this is that if mueller's team gets all of these answers from all of the people around the president and 1.4 million documents, then he has no need to question the president, right? and he would have no legal basis on which to argue it up through the supreme court to question the president. do you agree with john dowd that this was the right strategy to just let mcgahn go and assert no attorney-client privilege? >> no, i don't agree with it. i'll come back to sort of the pros and cons of that, but i think it's very dangerous not to assert the privilege and it's important for us all to remember, there are two kinds of privilege at stake here. there's the so-called executive privilege, which got litigated in water gatd and then there's the more traditional attorney-client privilege with a twist, which is mcgahn is the white house counsel not trump's person lawyer. he's really a government lawyer. and out of the three courts of appeal

i think that through john john dowd good sense and john dowd yesterday said, i'll use his word, rather than mine, mcgahn was a strong witness for the president. i don't need to know much more about that. >> a lot of speculation why this is coming out now, don't forget negotiations continue between the president's attorney and robert mueller about possibility of an interview with the president. did something arise from the conversations that mueller had with mcgahn that he now wants to speak with the president in person about? it is widely believed, shep, mcgahn will leave his position as white house counsel after the brett kavanaugh confirmation is complete. that might have something to do with it, as well. >> john, webster's defines as body of real things, events and facts and the state of being the case. it's truth. it's knowable, often demon strabable, sometimes elusive, but truth is truth, except that phrase lives inside alternative facts in a new place unique to the current environment. >> i will not be rushed into having him testify so he gets trapped into perjury, when you tell

. >> i think that through john dowd we had a sense of it and john dowd yesterday said, i'll use his words rather than mine that mcgahn was a strong witness for the president. so i don't need to know much more about that. >> they are getting desperate. they don't have anything. and charles, brevity is the soul of wits. spending 30 hour with the special counsel doesn't sound like the best idea. >> it doesn't. i think what president trump said was interesting and it's interesting because the journal put out a piece. you know, the editorial board is not president trump's best friends. even on this score, they say c'mon. i mean you have to really waive the executive privilege to let it go through. that is an amazing sign. that is something you simply do not give up or give away if you feel like you are guilty. having said that i think i speak to the entire american public please make it stop. please get it over with today. see a 30 hours there. when did we find the finish line on this thing. >> katie: 30 hours with the special counsel as mcgahn did may be a way to prevent the president from ha

it was the president's former outside attorney john dowd and ty cobb whom emit flood replaced who initially came up with the idea of having mcgahn cooperate fully with the mueller investigation. mcgahn had been reluctant to cooperate at first. dowd and cobb were worried that mueller might come after everybody in the white house with subpoenas. so they hatched an idea let's let mcgahn talk to him and let mueller talk to everybody at the white house. that's why it ended up with all of those interviews. more than 30 of them with white house officials. and all the those tens of thousands of pages of documents and emails that were turned over to the special counsel's office. so, none of this really came as a surprise to anybody here at the white house. the only thing they are not certain of is exactly what it was that mcgahn told mueller to the fullest extent during those interviews. but they have been reasonably assured, again, that he didn't say anything that would have been incriminating towards the president. certainly the senate majority leader mitch mcconnell had glowing things to say abou

>> i think that through john dowd we have a pretty good sense of it and john dowd yesterday said, i'll use his words rather than mine, that mcgahn was a strong witness for the president. so i don't need to know much more about that. >> now, even though mayor giuliani contends that they have a good handle on exactly what don mcgahn said to the special counsel, there's another "new york times" report that says exactly the opposite, that the white house and the president's legal team was not prepared for the voluminous amount of information that don mcgahn could have potentially given to the special counsel and he's not been debriefed outside of a short list of notes that was provided by don mcgahn's personal attorney to the effect of exactly what he talked about. and that could be the problem for the white house. mcgahn and his legal team have said repeatedly that they've been honest, and there are few people who know as much about exactly what the president's been up to over the past year and a half as it relates to the russia probe than don mcgahn. so the big question is what did the s

>> so neither john dowd nor rudy giuliani have actually literally been hired for their legal expertise relations expertise. this is all a part of the spin machine, it's not a part of a legal defense. and, no, i think it's highly doubtful that the people around the president would ever allow him to sit down with director mueller, although it's important to note that an awful lot of what's going on could be brought to closure if the president would agree to do that, as he has indicated in the past he would be willing to do, but has not been thus far. so i'm not at all optimistic that the president will sit down with him. in fact i think his lawyers would maybe even be guilty of malpractice if they allowed it because of the peril that it would put the president at. but that would be the appropriate thing to do. >> congressman denny heck, thank you for taking the time tonight. >> you bet, jim, thank you, sir. >>> outfront next tonight, the republican nominee for governor of florida accused of making a racist comment. >> the last thing we need to do is to monkey this up. >> what president t

john dowd also a part of that legal team. and now, of course, those are not the lawyers representing the president. you have rudy giuliani, jay sekulow who is one of the originals. but bottom line, they've become much more aggressive and this original desire to be open and to share everything sort of runs counter to what rudy giuliani sees as the right strategy moving forward. so i think that you're seeing a president increasingly lash out as this gets closer to him, andrea. >> kathy, you are a former white house counsel. and i want to be clear because i'm not sure the president, at least initially, understood this. don mcgahn is not the president's personal lawyer and he's not even the president's lawyer, per se. he's the lawyer for the office of the presidency. so there is, yes, you tell me is there an executive privilege? rudy was suggesting there is executive and lawyer/client privilege but a weak lawyer/client privilege here if at all. but you're the lawyer. help me out here. >> that's exactly right. i think rudy is wron

rudy giuliani admitting he's relying on the former attorney john dowd told him. >> i'll use his words rather than mine. mcgahn was a strong witness for the president. i don't need to know much more about that. >> reporter: dowd resigned from the legal team five months ago. chris christie blasting the decision to allow mcgahn to sit down with the special counsel voluntarily. >> this shows what a sea level legal team the president had in cobb and dowd. once you waive that privilege and turn over the documents, don mcgahn has no choice but to go in and answer everything. every question they can ask him. this is not in the president's interest. >> reporter: jake, in light of the new reporting from about don mcgahn, the white house is trying to portray the relationship with the president ironclad and the truth is it is tortured than athat and two months without seeing each other face to face and since there's an opening on the supreme court, we are seeing with statement saying they have a great relationship, a statement we're told president trump dictated to sarah sanders for reporters and

president said time and time again he wanted the russia probe to wrap up quickly, so ty cobb and john dowd took him at his word that he did nothing wrong and really suggested this open book strategy. the other things that don mcgahn as a government attorney who represents the office of the presidency and not donald trump himself really had no choice but to cooperate and answer questions truthfully. those questions that were posed by investigators. had he not chosen to do so, mueller certainly could have compelled him to do it. so you hear the president, you hear rudy giuliani, you hear top administration aides all make the point that don mcgahn's cooperation won't pose a problem for the president. of course we don't know that to be true until mueller finishes his work and issues this report to congress. >> it sounds like giuliani isn't sure what the testimony was about. giuliani continued to make headlines yesterday. one thing he said is about a shifting story about the 2016 trump tower meeting. what happened there? >> reporter: well, he completely misrepresented the record surrounding thi

. >> john dowd yesterday said, i'll use his words rather than mine, that mcgahn was a strong witness for the president. >> reporter: president trump himself blasted the "times'" story, tweeting it implied, quote, "that because white house counsel don mcgahn was giving hours of testimony to the special counsel, he must be a john dean type rat. but i allowed him and all others to testify. i didn't have to. i have nothing to hide." dean is the former white house counsel for richard nixon who famously flipped on the president during the watergate investigation. today, dean tweeting, "mcgahn is doing right." but the president's legal team seems to have been unaware of just how much mcgahn's been talking, and the president hasn't decided whether to sit down with mueller himself. giuliani saying they're worried about walking into a perjury trap, raising eyebrows with this comment. >> and when you tell me that, you know, he should testify because he's goind he shouldn't well, that's so silly because it's somebody's version of the truth. not the truth. he didn't have a conversation -- >> trut

which i only found out john dowd. >> so, john dowd, i understand, i talked to him on the radio on friday, i will give you everything. we want this over convict. mullen said absolutely give get it over quick. he gave him over a million documents. he felt like weighs totally mislead by robert mueller. he is james comey two. when you guys talk. >> of course not. >> okay. i do think there are a lot of problems? yes. do they portray it that way? no. it's a conversation between and among lawyers. jane raskin does most of the negotiating for us and -- does most of the negotiating for him. they are very civil. we have gotten good things out of it. they probably have also. be that as it may there should right now be an investigation of comey, mueller the whole group. brian: you want an investigation on the investigation? >> absolutely. go back to the beginning of it. it begins with a phony dossier. strzok, the horowitz report which casts all types of doubt with what happened on hillary and those people transformed to the counter intelligence investigation it never produces a darn thing. i am now

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but john dowd, the former top outside legal counsel told fox news as you said, quote - don mcgahn was a very strong witness for the present. over a dozen sources told "the new york times" that he is cooperating extensively with robert mueller 's team. there were three interviews of the times says don mcgahn described the president's most intimate moments with his lawyers. they say among those moments were donald trump comments and actions with the firing of then fbi director, james comey. his corporation supposedly began at what the president's first legal team wanted. they reportedly thought that full collaboration would help bring the probe to a quick end. that according to the times struck don mcgahn and his lawyers is odd. they do that mr. trump would want don mcgahn to openly speak with the special counsel. and don mcgahn and his lawyer reportedly concerned that donald trump might be setting mr. don mcgahn up for setting the blame for any actions. they say they decided to incorporate as much as possible. here's how one democrat sees it. >> he doesn't trust people he should trust.

>> what you have to understand is that that was part of the initial strategy by ty cobb and john dowd, turning over 1.4 million white house documents, having numerous white house employees go before the mueller team and be interviewed. that was their strategy, to cooperate as much as possible, get as much information out there as possible. >> i get it, jim. i know that was the strategy. do you -- i get that was the strategy. dowd is sticking by the strategy, saying this was great for us. but do you, counselor, think it's a good strategy? would you be a little bit shaking in your boots this morning if you are sitting on the white house legal team? >> i don't think i'm shaking in my boots if i'm sitting in the white house legal team. you have seen a shift in perspective. with flood on the scene now, he is -- he has been through this drill before. he is now tightening down the reigns a little bit on what goes out the door, who gets interviewed and also most likely negotiating scope of those interviews. i think there's a philosophic -- i think flood is doing the right things now to protec

trump's former lawyer john dowd called mcgahn a strong witness. tom. >> tara, thank you. >>> and join us tomorrow for "this week," martha raddatz one-on-one with white house national security adviser john bolton in an exclusive interview live from jerusalem. >>> now to the developing story in nashville, the city on edge and the urgent manhunt at this hour for two murder suspects considered armed and dangerous. police calling the suspects cold-blooded killers. accused of shooting a man and a woman in a parking lot. authorities believe the suspects may be linked to a violent and deadly crime spree. here's abc's erielle reshef. >> reporter: tonight, nashville police on an urgent manhunt for two armed and dangerous killers. >> cold-blooded killers who obviously have no respect whatsoever for the sanctity of human life. >> reporter: a spate of seemingly random shootings terrorizing the city. 3:3 a.m. friday morning, they were gunned down in the parking lot of an east nashville bar after a birthday celebration. police say the assailants robbed them, then

as john dowd, the president's lawyer said, don mcghan was the strongest witness for the president.eaning he completely gave testimony that said that the president didn't do anything wrong, which the president didn't do anything wrong. judge jeanine: who would plant a story or suggestion or create an effort to legitimize a claim mcghan is trying to take the fall. does it tell you that the "new york times" is making stuff up and is fake news? does it tell you that mueller is starting to panic and starting to get mcghan to work with him? telling him, look, the president is teeing you up for a fall? >> the best analysis would be that the mueller team is panicking. they know they don't have a case. there was in collusion or obstruction. they can't prove it, and they are trying to get the president to testify. and they are hoping that if they put out a story like this in which they suggest that mcghan is cooperating against him, but don't say it. that he'll want to come in and explain himself. the president wants to testify. the president wants to be open and transparent. otherwise he wo

. >> through john dowd we have a good sense of it. and i will use his words. that mcgahn was a strong witness for the president. >> reporter: you can see how rudy giuliani wavered a bit. they have not fully debriefed mcgahn. the lawyers representing don mcgahn provided them with a short outline. now, the president continues to insist that there is nothing to see here. this is fnot a bad thing for hi and legal prospects. he tweeted this, the failing "new york times" wrote a fake piece today. he must be a john dean type rat. but i allowed him and all others to testify because i didn't have to, even though i didn't have to, i have nothing to hide. speaking of dean, he is a central figure. he responded on twitter saying nixon knew he was meeting with prosecutors because i told them. this is how this applies to this current situation. we know the white house doesn't have a full handle. his attorneys have said repeatedly that he has told the truth in every instance. so exactly what he says could play an important role as to how the robert mueller investigation conti