parnas according to his lawyer john dowd, assists rudy giuliani in connection with mr. giuliani's representation of president trump. so the president has a lawyer, his name is rudy giuliani. in rudy giuliani's capacity as the president's lawyer he employs this guy lev parnas as his assistant, as his little helper. which seemed crazy, not least because john dowd, that lawyer wrote his letter addressed to congress in the comic sans typeface which made it seem like it was a joke. but sure enough as mr. parnas got arraigned in new york, a different lawyer of his made the case out loud to a federal judge that lev parnas' case was going to implicate executive privilege concerns because this case does overlap with a legal representation of the president of the united states. because in fact lev parnas is part of the president's legal team. this guy. this guy who is under arrest, the guy with the dead rat in the mail mob stock scheme before all the other stock schemes he was associated with that also got shot down by federal regulators. i mean this thing the president is being

they're using that in an effort to -- >> to shield. >> in an effort to shield, that's the problem. >> john dowd, formally from the white house. >> enormous conflict for dowd as well as for giuliani. the tests for conflict of interest is could your clients, in this case his clients, the president and these men, have some add va sayran conflict? they obviously could. these two people, potentially, could turn into corroborating witnesses against the president. giuliani, same issue. they are conflicted out of these representations at this point and they could be forced to testify because there is the crime fraud exception. even though there's an attorney/client privilege, you cannot help the clients -- >> force to testify. okay. let's get the political analysis on this. what is your read, ryan lizza? >> these two gentlemen have been a source of intrigue for a while now. the house intelligence committee has wanted documents from them and wanted them to come in for depositions and john dowd informed the committee, you know, that he was representing them and that it was going to take some time before

here's john dowd and they can i know. given busy i'm. busy i'm no gunson shante can and can't and then just begin to d.l. solution to the vitriol i said we didn't get in on why am i made. and was then considered in this new they are abusing in their zen correlation don't know. the pillagers happened over a century ago but turkey isn't ready to forget. like china and italy turkey has made the restitution of its treasures a political priority. within its culture ministry the turkish government has set up a special restitution unit. 40 or so lawsuits have already been won resulting in the return of over 4000 objects. one of the special units successes is the restitution of this music of orpheus stolen in the $950.00 s. then purchased by the dallas museum of art after several years of legal wrangling the museum was obliged to return it. while pillage nations like turkey have a legal framework to demand reparations this isn't the case in the private sector where only the market rules. in this antique shop window how many artifacts have a perf

john dowd, who used to represent the president, now represents parnas and frewman.our request for documents and communications is overly broad and unduly burdensome. the subject matter of your requests is well beyond the scope of your inquiry. he probably knew what was going to happen on wednesday and thursday with the justice department, which raises the stakes here again. >> and john dowd was arguing maybe the congressional investigators shouldn't get their information because they were working with giuliani who was working with the president, so there could be privilege issues. so they are directly connected to president trump and the efforts to get dirt on joe biden and his son. one question i have about this, though, is will there be a claim that they can't possibly cooperate with congress or turn over documents because now it's an ongoing investigation? >> right. they'll say we're on trial so you have to wait, if anything. let's try to step back if we can, and it's hard when these things are breaking, to the idea of rudy giuliani, once an icon in the united st

these two men, rudy giuliani, and of course the president, and we saw just in the last few days, john dowd, the president's former attorney who has, you know, told the lawmakers on capitol hill, asking for information from these two men, that they were very closely tied to the president. according to him, he says that -- >> he doesn't know who they are. >> the president says he doesn't know who they are, but, you know, john dowd, in the cause of the democrats is saying that these men were doing the work that rudy was asking them to do to help the president. in other words, tieing them so much closer to the president than i think the president or his legal team would like at this moment. again, these two guys, it's not going to be about this em. you c -- about them. you can see the way they were treated in court. the u.s. government, prosecutors agreed to a million dollars bond, let friends sign for it. you know, gave them the ability to communicate with each other afterwards, they are being treated very nicely. it's clear they're not the end result here. they're not the goal here. it's som

here we have a letter from john dowd, the attorney representing these two men saying that, yes, as wet that they have not been seen showing up here on the hill today that they will not be complying with a request to show up and provide testimony. nor will they be handing over documents which dowd calls an unduly broad and burdensome request made of these associates of rudy giuliani. now for people keeping score at home, you may remember the name john dowd was of course one of the white house lawyers for president trump early in the robert mueller saga appearing again here in his capacity as representing these two men who had worked with giuliani in ukraine. dowd's letter goes further and says that because he was working as an attorney here and because they were working with giuliani in his capacity as an attorney, there's all sorts of layers of privilege here that will be asserted over time. dowd essentially argues that he needs more time to work with these clients, potentially produce documents. but so far not helpful, not participating. congressional sources tell us the next step on

and it's going to include his old lawyers, you see john dowd's name popping up, who defended these two gentlemen, wrote a letter to congress on their behalf. there are now more attorneys coming up. paul manafort's former attorney was in court today defending these guys. so it seems like a little bit of deja vu to me. >> a little bit. jay sekulow quick to say neither donald trump nor his campaign had anything to do with these two men. >> under the bus -- sounds a little like they said about paul manafort. he never worked for the campaign. had nothing to do with us. >> well, here we are. passing it along. passing it along. back to your point on evidence. you read through the 21-page indictme indictment. parnas remarked this is what happens when you become visible. the buzzards descend. that's why we need to stay under the radar aware what they're doing is wrong. dangerous for them taken off a wiretap, phone call intercepted not a summary. on what gloria said, noth a link to what we call the mueller investigation, eve morn direct link to the ukraine impeachment investigation. one of the a

. >> john dowd said this was the most dishonorable conduct i have ever witnessed, pretending he wasn'tthe job, at the same time he knew possibly he would end up being special counsel. >> four days before being appointed special counsel he and rob were having a conversation about his appointment, the day before he knew he was possibly going to be appointed special counsel, he said he wasn't interviewing for a job which is a strange way to say it but when he was appointed special counsel he was in the running so it is really unequal and anyone around their understand he was on the list of people being considered to be fbi director. shannon: another interesting development. the supreme court clashes over the media, the word sex, justice gore such is the key vote in a landmark case, i will bring it to you next. i am royalty of racing, i am alfa romeo. walkabout wednesdays are back! get a sirloin or chicken on the barbie, fries, and a draft beer or coca-cola - all for just $10.99. hurry in! wednesdays are for outback. outback steakhouse. aussie rules. shannon: it appears supreme court justi

donald trump claim even if they admit as the lawyer for these two men, they have the same lawyer, john dowdthat the scheme that they're in trouble for was for trump. it sounds a lot like the payoff of the porn actress, right? they've admitted it was for him. after the two giuliani were subpoenaed john dowd wrote in comic sans, if what these two men did is criminal and giuliani is connected to them, and giuliani is trump's lawyer, is donald trump then implicated in the conspiracy? ? so quite possibly. there's not a crime of guilt by association just because my lawyer does commit some crimes understood pendent of me i'm not guilty of his crimes, but if there was an agreement that you're going to do this because we're all in on it together, i want this done and president trump participated in that agreement then he is a coconspirator or if he asked giuliani to do it for him that's the crime of solicitation. we know sitting presidents can't be charged with a crime under doj policy but it could be a basis for charging others, grounds for impeachment and it could be a chargeable offense after pre

you'll remember that his lawyer, john dowd who i should note was the president's former lawyer, did write letter to congress earlier saying that levparnas assisted mr. giuliani. how close were they to mr. trump? it was a great piece of reporting. >> thank you. >> i was struck. let's start with that one photo of the day after the barr summary of the mueller report. i mean, at the time did we know these gentlemen were involved with the legal team? >> no. at the time very few people knew who lev parnas was. the caption does say our celebratory dinner, indicating that lev parnas is there having dinner but we don't see him in any of the photos. it's unclear what his involvement was. did he have a seat at the table? there's an open plate. it's not clear that he's sitting down eating with them, however, if he did take the picture it shows he had tremendous access to this legal team. that raises a lot of questions because yes, as you pointed out, dowd had said that furman and giuliani represented trump. parnas said the same exact thing. >> one thing i learned from your reporting here is giuliani,

here's john dowd and they can i know. given busy i'm. busy you know gunson shante can play in kent and then. begin to d.l. cilicia new coach of the vitriol a set we've been engaged in in on money and then i made. an agenda to shoot it in this new they are abusing in. the pillagers happened over a century ago but turkey isn't ready to forget. like china and italy turkey has made the restitution of its treasures a political priority. within its culture ministry the turkish government has set up a special restitution unit. 40 or so lawsuits have already been won resulting in the return of over 4000 objects. one of the special units successes is the restitution of this music of orpheus stolen in the $950.00 s. then purchased by the dallas museum of art after several years of legal wrangling the museum was obliged to return it. while believes nations like turkey have a legal framework to demand reparations this isn't the case in the private sector where only the market rules. in this antique shop window how many artifacts have a perfectly est

they are respond to go this now and one more connection, kate, that we should make to this is john dowd is representing these two men. of course, you'll remember dowd was on the president's legal team until the early spring of last year. he's not commenting on this, either. this is something that will be something the white house has to comment on. >> and rudy giuliani is also not responding at this moment, which is unusual for rudy giuliani. we will wait and see. kaitlyn, thank you so much. evan is back with me. we are joined by michael gerhart. susan glasser, as well. michael, how -- do -- do these two arrests today of rudy giuliani associates, does it complicate the impeachment picture that is happening on capitol hill? >> i don't think it does yet. we may -- i think we'll need more information about who knew what about what they were doing, who was involved with it, who might have sanctioned it, who supported it. so we've got to do fact-finding. this is actually a perfect illustration of why in an inquiry held by the house more fact-finding is needed and the house can undertake furt

john dowd wrote a letter to the committee investigating the impeachment issues last week in which he objected to the document requests from the committee on behalf of these guys. so his role actually is quite interesting, as is the role of rudy giuliani. >> now, shimon, to you. the southern district of new york is handling this case, not the u.s. attorney in virginia. we know those federal prosecutors in new york are set to make an announcement in the next hour or so. what does it mean to you that they're handling this case and what questions are still unanswered out there? >> reporter: certainly there are still a lot of questions unanswered, and one of those things is how deep do these men's connections into ukraine, into foreign nationals, how deep does it run? and i think that is going to be one of the biggest questions that need to be answered here. who was helping them? what foreign nationals? we know that in the indictment they talk about a foreign national, number one, being a russian. who is that person and how deep into the ukranian government, perhaps the russian government

here's john dowd and they can i know. given busy i'm. busy i'm no gunson shante can play in kent and then just begin to d.l. solution to the visual a set. of 10 in on my knee and then i made. an exam to shoot it in this new they are abusing in. the pillagers happened over a century ago but turkey isn't ready to forget. like china and italy turkey has made the restitution of its treasures a political priority. within its culture ministry the turkish government has set up a special restitution unit. 40 or so lawsuits have already been won resulting in the return of over 4000 objects. one of the special units successes is the restitution of this music of orpheus stolen in the $950.00 s. then purchased by the dallas museum of art after several years of legal wrangling the museum was obliged to return it. while village nations like turkey have a legal framework to demand reparations this isn't the case in the private sector where only the market rules. in this antique shop window how many artifacts have a perfectly established origin in many

this comes from john dowd, that will be a name familiar to everybody here, now representing these peopleivate practice. parnas and fruman assisted giuliani in connection with his reputation of president trump. that's just a pause right there. can you believe guys like this had access to working with an american president? they've also been represented by giuliani in connection with their personal and business affairs. thus certain information you seek could be protected by attorney client, attorney privilege and other work practices. rudy was their lawyer. you can't mess with that privilege. that's doable, right? >> yes. >> so giuliani had a real arrangement with these guys, a real business arrangement. it wasn't just figurative. executive privilege. what argument is there for parnas and fruman getting executive privilege? >> they would have to be arguing they were conducting the official business of the united states government on behalf of the president of the united states. that is what they would have to claim. the president's personal activities, whether representing him as part of

john dowd not at all coincidentally, the president's former lawyer, now representing two of those giuliani associates. as you would expect, objecting to the documents requested and the time frame. giuliani has already been subpoenaed. the deadline for him to turn over documents is next tuesday, and the subpoenas, well, they just keep rolling in. democrats expanding the impeachment inquiry into brand-new corners of the federal government today with subpoenas to the pentagon and to the office of management and budget. congress demanding information on the decision to freeze foreign aid to ukraine. and in the face of all of this, with the impeachment inquiry looming at a time when any other president would maybe be a little more careful about what he or she says or puts in writing, this president tweets this about his abrupt decision to pull u.s. troops from northern syria ahead of the upcoming turkish invasion. quote, if turkey does anything that i, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, i will totally destroy and obliterate the economy of turkey. in his great and unmat

john dowd, an attorney for two associates, did not immediately respond to request for comment from nbc news. giuliani told nbc news he would not yet comment. you can always expect at some point he will have something to say. let's get to ken delaney at the federal courthouse in virginia, tom winter at the attorney's office for southern district of new york. during the press conference, chief legal correspondent ari melber, host of "the beat." tom, start with you, what charges are laid? >> reporter: four primary charges, two counts of conspiracy and also has to do with falsifying records. when you make a political contribution, if you make it with respect to a pro-trump super pac, if you say it is from a specific company, energy company that these two people started, it can't come from a loan or other monetary means which is what they're charged with here. basically what the u.s. attorney office laid out through the course of the grand jury indictment today is a scheme to take money from a foreign national they don't identify and inject it at various points into the political system. in

a few days ago the president's former lawyer and now john dowd wrote a letter to congress in the most professional font comic sans explaining that they couldn't appear, and i'm quoting here, they assisted mr. giuliani in connection with his representation of president trump. in other words, their one big happy legal team. and i'm quoting their own lawyer here, i'm not making this up. he said it. they assisted mr. giuliani in connection with his representation of president trump. so you can't talk to them, congress, sorry. that was a week ago. "the wall street journal" reports those two gentlemen had lunch with giuliani himself at the trump international hotel in washington on wednesday. that would be yesterday, giuliani and the two men having lunch. and we know from the u.s. attorney hours later, that's hours after lunch with giuliani at the trump hotel parnas and fruman were a refsed at a d.c. international airport as they were about to board a one way flight. they're trying to have foreign nationals -- here's how jeffrey berman, a trump appointee explained it. >>> as alleged in the

represented by a name that may be familiar to folks who watch closely the mueller investigation, john dowd, one of the outside lawyers representing president trump in the time, and in a letter that was sent by dowd to the house intelligence committee, dowd acknowledged he was representing them and said in effect the two men had been assisting giuliani in connection with their representation of president trump. however, he also said that some of the documents that they were hoping to see, investigators were wanting to see were protected by attorney-client privilege here and that he would need more time to be able to go through that documentation before anything could be turned over. >> peter, how real is the worry in washington, d.c. that these most recent arrests, these two arrests could have major implications on this impeachment inquiry? >> i think what has been real throughout this is the real concerns as relates to president trump and his relationship with rudy giuliani. the president can try to protect a lot of people in his orbit, certainly those who work within the executive office,

john dowd telling fox news mueller's actions were, quote: the most dishonorable conduct i have ever witnessed. on the impeachment front, white house counsel pat late today sent a letter to house speaker nancy pelosi and the chairs of three house committees slamming the impeachment investigation saying president trump and his administration cannot participate in your partisan and unconstitutional inquiry. in the letter cipollone cites the vote in the full house impeachment inquiry writing the house of representatives has never attempted to launch an impeachment nirk against the president without a majority of the house taking political accountability for that decision. cipollone blasts democrats for denying president trump the due process of fully authorized inquire would allow him saying have you denied president the right to cross-examine witnesses, to call witnesses, to receive transcripts of testimony. to have access to evidence. to have counsel present and many other basic rights guaranteed to all americans. so, bret, what the white house counsel is basically doing here is daring nancy pe

and john dowd who represents igor, wrote in a letter to the house intelligence committee, their askse overly broad and unduly burdensome. the two business associates missed yesterday's deadline to comply with the requests and two congressional sources telling nbc news they will be served with subpoenas if they do not cooperate going forward. >>> and house democrats have subpoenaed two trump administration officials surrounding the decision to suspend u.s. aid to ukraine. the intelligence committee in tandem with the oversight and foreign affairs committees has demanded documents and communications from mike esper and russell vought. democrats are looking into the white house's decision to withhold critical military assistance to ukraine that was appropriated by congress to counter russian aggressions. the officials are expected to comply with the request by october 15. >>> let's talk about this. joining us on the set, msnbc legal analyst danny cevallos. good to see you. >> good morning. >> let's talk about the latest subpoenas issued by the house democrats relating to withholding aid

the attorney for les said this is being brought up because a former attorney for president trump john dowdd les he should be be talking about issues of executive privilege. this is important because rudy giuliani the president's personal attorney, he's someone who's emerged as a central figure in this impeachment inquiry and, as a result, rudy y giuliani's work could be connected to president trump and that means connected to these associates. we'll have to see how the white house responds. the white house is not talking about it at this point but it's something we'll definitely have to watch. >> woodruff: another separate thing that happened today, yamiche, in a federal peals court that has to do with the lawsuit ainst president trump to force him to turn over his tax returns. in the course of this proceeding, the president's lawyer talked about immunity that the president enjoys against any criminal prosecution, any sort of criminal accusation, which could be pretty broad. so what is our understanding of what this is all about and what are the implications? >> this case is involving a su

i was saying you are missing john dowd, the same group of people. it's not a coincidence.hat the two lawyers representing trump in his impeachment hearing happen to also represented the ukraine who funneled money. just take them down where you can. >> i'll put the tweet back up again. the president calling him a legendary crime buster. things have changed since. i have seen a lot of writing in recent days about why we call him the president's personal lawyer. he is unpaid. he doesn't seem to be doing any legal work. our notion of who he is and what he has been doing changed in recent weeks. >> absolutely. i think the media has to make that distinction. rudy giuliani, for those of us long time native new yorkers, we know this person quite well. we know he has a very long history. some folks might remember him as the 9/11 america's mayor. before that, he had a troubled past in new york city as mayor, particularly with communities of color. rudy giuliani has a long and checkered past just as a figure, as a political figure. and now obviously we're seeing this could become a c

the president fired john dowd, who he's paying a lot of money to.and jay sec la, jay is probably working pro bono as well.-case scenario is that rudy can say i was doing what i was doing with ukraine, on behalf of the president. now, he has to say that, because for rudy's own legal exposure, it can't be a fara violation. but with that said, you're going to see people that are not trump loyalists in the white house, are going to continue to testify, people that are part of -- career people in the state department and the nsc. so, i think that's the issue. and the issue isn't whether or not rudy is -- he's not going to be fired. the president likes him a lot-keep him. he's very loyal, but whether the president -- >> likes his style, he's combati combative. >> whether the president will put him on mute is really the issue. >> but does rudy stay on mute? that's rhetorical. who knows the answer to that one. did you see that opinion piece in the "washington post" by nancy gibb, where she makes a suggestion and lays out a pretty good case for the president

at that point in time, john dowd, one of trump's lawyers, pounds fist on the table and says, go aheadyer stepped in and subdued the situation. pete: wow, fascinating stuff behind the scenes. we don't have time for the third reveal which is about the media witch-hunt. that is why people have to buy the book. it is out today. it is called, "witch-hunt." you gregg jarrett. ainsley: by the book. pete: make it number one. ainsley: congratulations. pete: ellen ellen degeneres forced to defend herself sit against the social media mob, just sitting next to president gore-bush at a cowboys game. good afternoon board members. we have some great new ideas that we want to present to you today. [son]: who are you talking to? [son]: that guy's scary. the first item on the list is selecting a chairman for the... for the advisory board what's this? as well as use the remaining... child care options run out. lifetime retirement income from tiaa doesn't. guaranteed monthly income for life. jillian: good morning, we're back with a fox news alert. moments ago the white house reportedly blocks the former

i think now he's represented by john dowd. so there's, you know, mr.r himself as congress wants to speak with him. think the concern from the diplomats' perspective was giuliani was sort of poisoning trump's mind on this issue. had really gotten into trump's head and was really influencing how he viewed ukraine and that was affecting u.s./ukrainian relations. we see some of that in the text messages about the aid, the diplomat in kiev raising the question of this mixture of politics and aid is obviously not a good thing. there was -- the diplomats thought for us to do our work, we have to pacify giuliani and trump somehow. and maybe this statement would do that. >> so, david french, can you just speak to how unusual all this is? we're so deep in the weeds sometimes it's worth pulling back that you have diplomats and political appointees preparing statements for the president of a foreign country so that, you know, he might come out and investigate political opponents that you have the secretary of state and the attorney general and rudy giuliani flying