you're telling us about that. >> john gardner. >> yes. >> sees 30. >> okay. he said why did he do that. >> yes. >> with the sec? creek. >> well, there were two separate murders. and i just try to be quick because i can sit there for a long time expired on this. a first-round, he did not -- he did not know these people and events. he had completely different moods and motivations and was in a completely different mental state in each case. the first one he was angry escrow friend. she was off doing that with some other people. he stayed up all night long, banks open like 16 years and he was angry. he grabbed a gun and knife and he went out hunting and you want to tear somebody. he did not care who was. he saw this figure walking alone with the heady and did not realize where there was a boy wrote. campeau's terror, solid it was a girl and then was happy because then he did a paper to. he was very honest about it. the premier said that. and i'm not going into any details, but that's pretty much how he said it. the second one, he had disintegrated. he later he h

question from rachel davidson -- how did julia gardner, a northerner, feel about becoming a slave owner upon her marriage to john tyler. >> that's an easy one. she comes from a family of slave owners. new york does not abolish slavery until 1813. there are slaves at gardner island earned by her family she's born 1820, she's as much born into the slaving culture as nyone living in the time time. >> war their slaves then? >> there must have been. tylers would have brought slaves with them. we know when the peacemaker, the gun blew up on the princeton, one of the enslaved men owned by tyler was killed. so clearly he had some of his enslaved people there in the white house with him. >> now, talked earlier about julia's daughter doing this advertisement, she earned the moniker the rose of long island. she brought the sense and sensibility to her job, eight month as first lady. it is written in some books that she actually had the services of what would be thought of a press agent. >> she's the hanna august. >> the president himself didn't have a press tie to publicity. >> not at all. >> the more notorious, the better

john tyler's memory is still revered in the south after the war as being somebody who's tible legitimize the cause of the confederacy and julia gardner tyler certainly is contributing kind of to this lost cause notion of something she refers to as holy southern cause. so she never -- there really sent demiped of rehabilitation of her husband because in the south she doesn't feel like he needs to be rehabilitated except when it comes to getting her pension. which is something she desperately needs. they have two homes, sherwood forest and summer home near hampton, virginia and they -- which actually goes through the same kind of damage that sherwood forest goes through. she has to sell that property in order just to maintain sherwood forest, which again is mostly for them effectively to live in and smends a lot of the time fighting for her pension, which she doesn't get until 1881 when she's awarded $1,200 a year but the main argument against it is yes, she may have been first lady but your husband actually became a traitor to the united states so there's no reason why we should ever honor that. >> on the phone with us now is christop