jennifer palmieri, mark mckinnon, and john heilemann.er means, or a proxy for war so that we don't have to use violence. what are the politics of this moment right now? because as i was-- we've talked about here and hinted in my last question, there has been a very strange shift for the republican party in the united states-- again, i'm old enough to remember grameko, remember the republican party always willing to stand up to autocratic regimes that tried to crush democracy. why this change? >> it's stunning what's happening geopolitically with putin, not a rational actor. mitt romney was right in 2012 and everybody laughed at him. it's just shocking to me-- one of the central tenets of the ideological ground floor of the republican party was antiauthoritarianism, particularly anti-russia, putin actors. and to see what's happening now, among the republican party, joe biden is twice as unpopular as vladimir putin in the republican party. so that tells you how political things have become. that people-- people are supporting putin just be

john heilemann is the executive editor of the recount, and he's back.e southern district of new york, former league counsel for the democrats' first impeachment trial, not to be mixed up with the second impeachment trial and "new york times" editorial board member mara gay is here, all three msnbc contributors. i got through the draper piece, and i remember flynn being talked about as a vp and i actually remember i was interviewing jeb bush and people were covering threads of flynn. i think he was on "morning joe" one morning when you and i were both there, john heilemann, sort of cleaning up his positions on issues like abortion and whatnot. and then i saw mike pence give a speech today and i want to play what he said, and i wondered if it's beyond rational to wonder if pence and flynn could face off should trump sit it out. here's pence saying donald trump is wrong. >> and i heard this week that president trump said i had the right to overturn the election. but president trump is wrong. i had no right to overturn the election. the presidency belongs t

msnbc plit cap contributor ben roads and john heilemann. also a msnbc national affairs analyst., you were telling me about an interview you did today that tells the story of what is happening on the ground. >> i was talking to a ukrainian journalist and describing how much things changed in the last 24 hours. she went to the grocery store. there's no food. described scenes of chaos at the train station. described being in a bomb shelter with a young family that had to evacuate with explosion near them. they did not plan. they had a 6-month-old baby and all they were able to grab before they slept a few pieces of bread and water and diapers. so you know, part of the explosions and think of physical violence but this is now a city where people are totally cut off and basic propositions are not there. while i was talking to her there's a huge explosion outside the window and had to run into the bathroom to get away from it and then go down stairs and why people waited she said they did not believe that russians would do this to them. there are deep ties. many people in ukraine have

john heilemann is back. executive editor of the recount.sm professor at morgan state university. all three msnbc contributors. hi there, john heilemann. what do you make, it's only wednesday. feels like dog years, right? seven days have been had each one of the news cycles we've already lived through. but what do you make of the newly sort of corroborated and confirmed picture of not just trump's hands on the effort to seize voting machines, but his direction of those plots at dod, dhs, and doj? >> hi, nicolle. it's not just it's only wednesday. it's only, what is it, february 2nd? >> yeah. >> man. >> me, too. >> it's early in the year and we've had enough traitorous activity revealed over the last couple of days to last a lifetime, let alone a year. there's a lot of ways to parcel of this and you and i, i feel like i've talked endlessly about this. and i'll make somebody laugh. i try to say what i think is true and also try not to be totally hyperbolic. i don't think i've used the word, treason before about donald trump. someone will figur

see, it is the obsession, john heilemann.e people that he was been put upon by the media and by the establishment just like they were. but, yeah, there does seem to be more of a separation now. pat buchanan did have a moment in '92, did have a moment in '96. that moment passed. i think buchanan though is really a great place to trace trumpism too. but i understand there always has been that recesssive gene in the republican party, but it has been a recesssive gene. it has been the minority. it has been the one-third. all we have to do is look at, you know, what happened in 2006 when you had every single republican vote to reauthorize the voting rights act and now you can't find one that will go on the record saying they're willing to do that. this is a party that has changed radically, even in the past 15 years because of donald trump. but i will say though, i agree with what buchanan told jeremy. trump is the person who carries this. it is not desantis. it is not mike pence. it is not nikki haley. i think the moment has pass

that's what this is about. >> john heilemann. >> well, i'm just curious, mary.kind of discern, a, what the motivations are of some of these players, of durham, for instance, and where does this go from here in the aftermath of this pseudo scandal that we are seeing? >> well, the durham investigation is in real trouble. one of the things that -- and tom mentioned this briefly, but one of the things that sussman revealed overnight is that durham didn't interview -- like one of the allegations in the indictment is that sussman was coordinating with the hillary campaign on these alfa bank allegations back in october. sussman was like, name the people. in october durham said i don't have any people. in november he first interviewed a hillary staffer. he hadn't actually investigated this. we also learned recently that even though durham and bill barr flew to italy to get the phones from joseph masoud, if you remember, is that italian who was talking to george papadopolous. he never walked across doj to get the phones from james baker, who is the single witness to this

ambassador mcfaul and ambassador taylor and john heilemann is still here. to the ambassadors. ambassador taylor, on this idea that people here may con flatd sanctions with a response to an invasion. they're tools that may to be in the same suite. what are the thoughts about what is done other than what we talked about getting more weapons and more sort of military assets to the ukrainian people while the sanctions take effect and do the damage they're designed to do. >> right. there was a hope that the threat of sanctions would deter and as we see it didn't. the sanctions now are focused on a different goal. that is to harm frankly the russian economy. to make it harder for the russian economy and for president putin using the resources he's got to conduct this war. this is an attempt to make it hard on russian people and the way to talk about before that might cause them to turn against this war and in greater numbers and to affect the russian ability to manufacture weapons and other items that they do with these components. so that the export ban is an im

i'm john heilemann in for nicole wallace and continuing our coverage of the escalating situation in ukrainedo exactly what you heard former cia director john brennan there warning about, putin formally recognizing the independence of two moscow-backed breakaway regions in eastern ukraine. russia has been supporting armed separatists, a move that the "new york times" describes this way. quote, russia's recognition of the two regions could allow separatist leaders to request military help from russia further easing a path for a military offensive, ukrainian officials say. ukraine would likely interpret that as russian troops entering ukrainian territory. in response to putin's move, president biden is set to issue an executive order sanctioning russia but made clear these measures are separate and from and would be in addition to the severe economic measures the white house has been preparing if russia invades ukraine further. all of this following a weekend of signs that we are on the brink of war breaking out, including a frightening warning from the u.n. high commissioner for human rights,

but there was a question raised by john heilemann a couple of hours ago that i couldn't answer. is joe biden really going to let these horrors occur, if they do, as warned to the u.n., there was a kill list, people who would be targeted, people not ethnically russian, people willing to resist, journalists, including americans. if that happens, is joe biden going to be able to stand by and say we're going to sanction the breakaway parts of ukraine and russia? will the president stick to what he said to lester holt and other statements since, which is that if you went up against russia there, in the ukraine, which is not a member of nato, does not have article 5 treaty protection, he's not going to send american troops, men and women, in to rescue americans who don't come out commercially? and he said, the president is not going to amend anything the president has said. so as of now, they're saying they're not going to intervene. i don't know if that is sustainable. but that is the position. >> terrell, this is -- andrea brings up an important point. a lot of russia's neighbors al

i'm john heilemann in for nicolle wallace. 4:00 in the east. midnight in moscow.ir putin is edging to an invasion of ukraine. in european, u.s. and the world the tension is on the rise. a crisis that looks inevitable. president biden met with the national security team at the white house. the administration has not closed the door on the idea of a peaceful resolution to the conflict agreeing to the idea of a summit between biden

msnbc and nbc national affairs analyst and executive editor of "the recount" john heilemann.

>>ion john heilemann and i were talking on a podcast and then about cosby.nd watching "fat albert." you hear him being like wall paper for america. he was kind of all of our wall paper in the '60s, '70s, '80s. again it was an incredible reach. talk about it is a great quote you say that bill cosby helps explain america more than anybody else. >> yeah. as far as i can tell. this is what i have learned through this process, there is basically two forces that are run away trains in this country. one is racism and the ought is the way in which we treat women. you can't talk about american history how were they treating people not white at this point and women at this point. then black women and women of color. so bill cosby's career involves all those things, the ways in which he talked to people to overcome racism or black team e people to be smarter and do food in your community. there is the other part he is accused of sexually assaulting and raping over 60men women the country does not do a good job hoff women assaulted of rape. >> let's talk about the cosby

i'm john heilemann in once again for nicolle wallace.the united states and western allies grappling with the grim reality that the russian invasion of ukraine has begun. less than two hours ago, president biden announced a new round of sanctions targeting russian banks and russian elites and reiterating that putin would pay a significant price if he escalated further. >> who in the lord's name does putin think gives him the right to declare new so-called countries on territory that belonged to his neighbors? this is a flagrant violation of international law and it demands a firm response from the international community. >> the administration's new sanctions come on top of the sanctions it levied yesterday as well as the significant announcement earlier today by the german chancellor that germany would stop the certification of the nord stream 2 natural gas pipeline that would have linked to country with russia. also today, the russian parliament, unsurprisingly, gave putin to use armed forces abroad. a move that could pave the way to an