sandra: john herbst. >> that is a very serious mistake. if mr.eds in ukraine he will commit aggression elsewhere. he said a couple weeks ago, is not a real country and he has the right to protect ethnic russians wherever they may be. two weeks ago he rested a counterintelligence operative. a week later the russian foreign minister was in latvia saying that russia should not be discriminated against. there building a case to intervene elsewhere. this is a danger that goes well beyond ukraine. ukraine is willing to fight in its defense. we need to help them. if we don't stop putin and -- in ukraine he will fight elsewhere. and putin will stand down if the west stands firm. the problem is the west has not stand firm. sandra: these are serious words. is the west tried to do something about this? we will put this in your lap what about these sanctions. >> they're making things uncomfortable putin keeps going, and my guess is he is headed for nato. he understands there is a loophole in that treaty. as long as putin does not have an armed attack and it