with us is science journalist john horrigan from the stevens institution of technology in the new york of "the end of war." and welcome, and congratulations. >> thank you. >> you were explaining to me during the break some of the evidence that you point to that war is not a permanent state of being. can you elaborate on that? >> let me just emphasize how widespread the view is that war is a permanenuç pardon me of th human condition is. i've been surveying people over the last few years and talking my students at school about it. almost everybody i have spoken to is extremely fatalistic about war. they think war will never end. had this goes up to the highest level of of power. >> you think that fatalism is a real issue? >> absolutely. i think the more fatalistic we are, the more we are to support foreign policies that make that belief self-per pep waiting. so barack obama while accepting the nobel peace prize said in his acceptance speech that war has been around for as long as there have been humans, which is scientific statement, and we should not expect to eradicate war. i wrote th