john kasich, you're actually against civil unions. john boehner, you don't want background checks for gun buyers after all even though none of you really seem to believe that's what you're supposed to believe. why does this happen so much in republican politics and how does the other party or country at large argue policy with a party that so often does not seem know what their policy positions are let alone actually believe in them. >>> joining us is ezra klein, msnbc policy analyst. thanks for being here. >> good to see you, rachel. >> occasionally republicans do not just talk about policy and get confused therein. occasionally they make policy the case with a big spending bill they left for the government shutdown they left for the president to sign today. is there something in policies they do enact that show they do understand those policies and believe in them more than this other stuff they seem to not even really understand? >> there are a couple of constants. lower taxes on rich people, not lower taxes for everybody, right? t

comment reporting that ohio governor john kasich sayingpports civil unions for same-sex couples and went on to quote the spokesperson, this is a staple from the spokesperson, the governor's position is unchanged. he opposes gay marriage and opposes changing ohio's constitution to allow for civil unions. well, so much for that. and he's far from the first republican to feel the heat from the fringe. joining me right now is msnbc contributor ron reagan and errol lewis. first, i'll comment on that one. kasich is a fine guy, a bit of a maverick and he's had a tough life in many ways and he says what comes to mind and he's thinking out loud and he says you know what? i'm not ready to go all of the way on my position, but civil union, i can live with that and civil you know knows and he said it again and within hours his flack comes out with a written statement to make sure it's getting picked up saying he didn't say what we heard him just say, ron. what's going on here? >> he gave is straight. he seemed to demonstrate that on the one hand he do

ohio governor john kasich said he's in civil unions. later the staffer said he didn't mean that. what? he did mean it, he wasn't allowed to say it. in today's gop, if you're not far right, you're wrong. also we learned today that newt gingrich and rick santorum secretly talked about forming a massive ticket. what happened? big surprise. they couldn't agree on who was going to be president and who was going to be vice president. tonight, a great story of political mating and eventually cold feet. >>> plus it's hard for michelle obama, or michele bachmann to top herself and she's done it not once, but twice this week, including that obama care, love this word, is killing people. remember the death squads and death panels. she's back with them again. michele bachmann pants on fire fact check coming later in the show. let me talk about the fringe right to know even a smidgen of history. this is "hardball" the place for politics. omnipotent of opportu. you know how to mix business... with business. and you...rent from national. because only

and that's what happened this week when an ohio governor john kasich, who i like, changed his positiongay civil unions. let's watch what he said. >> made news with his position on gay marriage, changing it because of his son coming out. could you ever see a position, a time where you, yourself, might change your position? >> i really can't see one. i've talked to rob and encouraged him and, you know, if people want to have civil unions and have some way to transfer their resources, i'm for that. i just think marriage is between a man and a woman. but if you want to have a civil union, that's fine with me. >> twice he said it's okay to have a civil union. gay marriage and civil unions are no small matter in ohio. in 2004 a ballot measure during the general election amending the ohio constitution to outright ban civil unions was credited with energizing the evangelical vote tipping ohio in bush's favor, w's favor, and winning the election over john kerry. it was a huge issue in 2004 and it was a vote against gay marriage or civil unions after the governor there came out for civil unions

rick scott of florida and john kasich, so they have problems. even in their gubernatorial. in terms of 2016, this is going to be the first open election on both sides since 2008. i expect we will have a large field of candidates. there's no question that if hillary tosses her glove into the ring, she will be a very phenomenal candidate. there is a poll out today that she beats both jeb bush and marco rubio by double digits. joe biden will be a strong candidate. we have an enormous number of good governors across the country, martin o'malley, governor cuomo, so i am looking forward to it. >> do you think voters in an aging society -- part of obama's appeal was young and vibrant. does it matter? >> i think presidential politics is very generational. when the country moves to a next generation of leadership, they very rarely reach back and bring in an older generation. to a certain extent that was a factor for senator mccain in running against obama and partly a factor in romney running against obama, and that is an interesting dynamic for the two most likely nominees who will

john kasich of ohio thinking about this, could the federal government afford to back this plan? is actually federal dollars that will be spent if this were to catch on. if the cbo is right about the spending. gerri: >> when we look at this in context, in arkansas is between 700 and 800,000 citizens today. what we are talking about is can we fund 800,000 on the current system or if we go to this model, it takes about 2 million more in private pay options. over the long-term, we think that we can increase the overall cost curve down over the long run. that's very important to us. i think it must we can save the state money, therefore the federal government money in the long run, -- gerri: you certainly have the advantage of bringing the private sector on us. thank you for coming on the show tonight. i appreciate your time. >> thank you for the invitation gerri: coming up, colleges are doing something they have never done before to get your money. and sheryl sandberg, making waves about her comments regarding women in the workplace. we will see what our panel makes it that coming u

his spokesman released a statement in part staying -- >> where does john kasich stand, jonathan? know how you use the term "civil union" which has this point has a lot of sort of, you know, legal history behind it loosely. i think that politicians are struggling with this issue. it's one of those where a lot of the voters have a strong feeling pro or anti, and the politics may not feel as strongly. when you look at the republican party, you have a religious conservative base that's very against gay marriage. but you have also got an ascendant libertarian wing of the republican party that is in some cases pro gay marriage. so it will be interesting to see how it plays out. you've seen a lot of evolution on the democratic side. remember, president obama talked about how i was evolving while he was evolving and where he was going to get. >> erol, that was a pretty impressive stumble and fumble there. >> you don't see that very often, where they pull it back within minutes. i have to say, kasich, you've got to feel for him. like many other governors, because they have to deal with re

they have a governor, john kasich who is very supportive of it. cut funded by a higher severance tax. new york and california are really the outliers. vermont banned fracking. does not believed to be any shale gas. new jersey may have even done it. new york will be the real test case. it is across the border from pennsylvania where they're having a boom. governor cuomo seems to go in there and come back. let me point out there are really three options. you can have a ban. you can lift the ban but even the third option lift the ban and make the process so onerous that you end up shutting down --. melissa: is that your prediction? >> this way andrew cuomo doesn't look like he is completely irrational number one. number two he doesn't invite all sorts of taking suits. if you ban it there might be strong indication and people say you banned my rights to develop the minerals under my land. that is taking under the constitution. melissa: right. >> you allow fracking. melissa: but don't really allow it? >> right. in fact jerry brown in the first year in

then you have john kasich who announced his support and then says he didn't really mean it.tutional, what does it mean for other states that are debating the issue. >> we've made the broad case because we think it's the right thing for the court to do. california's proposition 8 hurts couples like our plaintiffs like chris and sandy and paul and jeff. but they're really an example of millions of other americans across their country in many other states that are also being harmed by discriminatory bans on marriage like proposition 8. >> you know, this month, just a parade of people and organizations have. could out supporting the same sex marriage. but the heritage foundation released a report that said there is no ban on same sex marriage. what is at issue is whether the government will recognize such relationships as marriages and force every citizen and house of worship and business to do so as well. americans have the right to live as they choose but they do not have the right to redefine marriage for everyone else. so is this movement for same sex marriage, is this recog

some of them bike bobby jindal or mickey haley or martinez of new mexico or john kasich or governor snyder, all these people may be able to emphasize their experience but also marco rubio, you mentioned. rand paul is going may be a candidate. i think at some point for the top spot but the second part, senator from new hampshire and governor chris christie, if he gets re-elected is going to be a player if he wants to be a player. >> greta: do you see a bigger role for the people that identify themselves as tea party candidates or do you think that freshly in light of the recent rnc report certain things like suggesting perhaps fewer debates which may be more difficult for less well known candidate. what do you see looking into the future? >> a dozen debates is going to be adequate for anybody to get known. 22 hurt the republican party. chairman priebus is right. we ought to limit the number of debates. it's what the democrats did to minimize the damage to them from putting anchors in charge in unscripted events. it really hurt on our side because most of anchors were happy to pick the repub

bill clinton the president and john kasich and newt beginning we created the balanced budget act of 1997 and it was during the bush years of spending multiplied now by the obama years that we have the mess. my difficulty with the tea party freshmen isn't the true passion. they are an important part of the republican party. at the end of the day you have to govern. just saying no doesn't get you anything and create these falls crises. you can get past the false crises if you work something out. it doesn't mean sur renning principle. working together in a way that you get 60% of what you want. >> you have to go back. i don't think the tea party has created the budget crisis. we came in with members and tried to do something about it. i remember a day when april 15 is when the house and senate had to pass a budget resolution. i remember when they had to reconcile the 13 appropriations bills and a day when the president actually had to introduce his budget and today we don't do any of that stuff and that is how we got to the $16 trillion and there is something rational about standing on the

so people like bob mcdonald, scott walker, john kasich, suzanne a martinez, chris christie, brian sandovalese are the people we need to listen to and make sure their message is heard across the country. >> the problem, the only one of the republicans that romney mentioned that was invited to cpac, scott walker. in other words, no one at cpac can actually listen to chris christie or bob mcdonald because they aren't there. who is there? paranoid birther disguised as real estate mogul donald trump. >> if mitt made one mistake -- >> hold on, if? and to clarify, one mistake? >> i think if mitt made one mistake, and i like mitt romney a lot, if he made one mistake, he didn't talk enough about his success because honestly people really want success. they want a leader who's successful. >> trump went on to liken our entire country, all 50 united states to a country club. >> just recently i bought a country club, 800 acres in miami. i am going to fix it, make it incredible. i am going to make that place incredible. that's what we have to do with this country. we have to fix it. we've got to make it

a lot of competent aggressive people running, whether it's from his home state, marco rubio or john kasich or scott walker, or raprand paul you're watching tonight, 2016. >> greta: any women in that mix? >> i think you could see susanna martinez from new mexico, nikki haley and kelly ayotte, the senator from new hampshire. >> greta: you mentioned florida, governor rick scott has decided to expand the medicaid, which after he said he wouldn't and i think that governor chris christie like-wise, i can't remember, but does governor rick perry says he's not taking it. >> you know, the great thing about the federalist system is that 50 governors have to make decisions from 50 states. i would-- my bias is with rick perry, but i don't second guess a governor of a state who makes a decision that he thinks is right for his state. that's why you have a federalist system and that's why the 10th amendment is important. we'll see over the next four or five years which person made the right decision. >> greta: at the dinner tonight that was in washington that we just spoke about at the jefferson hotel. s

states we're going to have to win to be able to get back people like bob mcdonald, scott walker, john kasichez, chris christie, brian sandoval. these are the people we have to listen to and make sure their message is heard loud and clear across the country. now we can also learn from the examples of principle and passion and leadership we've seen during the last few weeks here in washington, d.c., by a republican leaders. i may be a little biased, but i applaud the clear and convincing voice of my friend, paul ryan. >> if i were to offer advice to any person who was or became the president of the united states it would be this -- do whatever you can to keep america strong. to keep america prosperous. and free. and the most powerful nation on earth. it's no secret that the last century was an american century and it's no secret that over the span of the coming century, that is not written in the stars. america's preeminent position is not guaranteed. and the consequence, if america were to become surpassed by another nation would be devastating. why do i say that? because the other leading co

>> our republican governor john kasich oft tou himself as a budget expert, chair of the house budget committee back in the '90s. so we hear a lot about federal budgets from our governor. and interestingly he has been say and his office has been saying that they don't expect to see significant affects on state programs from the sequester. and when i talked to state agencies such as the department of education and job and family services which will be dealing with job training money, that might be cut. the attitude is very let's wait and see, let's see what happens here. we have time to adjust. an the are school funding money,ducaon money wouldn't even be affected until next school year t starts in august. so there is a feeling here in ohio, a state run by republicans, that there is plenty of time to absorb the sequester. while it might not be i deal there's time to recover. >> brown: and karen, do you think that also applies to the again population as well, a sense of sort of watching from outside a bit? >> i think it depends on where are you in the state. certainly we've got the two

people like bob macdonald, scott walker, john kasich, susannah martinez, chris christie, brian sandoval got to listen to and make sure their mess annage is heardd and clear across the country. i'm sorry i won't be your president but i will be your co-worker and work shoulder to shoulder alongside you. you see, in the end,, in the end we'll win. we'll win for the same reason we won before. because our cause is just, and it is right. >> let's talk a little more about what's going on with our chief political analyst gloria borger and chief political correspondent candy crowley the anchor of "state of the union." he says, romney, that the party needs to learn from his mistakes. what are those lessons? >> well, i think by watching him you could see what they were. this is a man who is having trouble connecting with voters. i don't think he particularly connected with this conservative group. it kind of puzzles me why he chose this as the first place to make his first kind of public speech. the thing that interested me the most about it, wolf, was that he went out of his way to mention chris

[cheers and applause] >> people like bob mcdonald, scott walker, john kasich, susana martinez, chrisre the people we need to listen to and make sure their message is heard loud and clear across the country. martha: he included in that group governor bob mcdonnell of virginia, and governor chris christie of new jersey both of whom were not invited to speak. >> he could have included matt america's ade. they know what works in terms of washington which has a lot of theories about what should work. governors have to balance their budget every year, have to live within your means. washington could take lessons from many of the governors, martha. martha: i think you'll see a lot of focus in the blue and purple states as mitt romney said where republican governors are doing well. some wonder why a couple of those names were not included in the conference. there is a new report where they acknowledge the technological shortcomings for one thing and the outreach that needs to start now if republicans hope to have better results at the federal level in the future. what do you think about some

> what do you think of the eight republican governors, including people like chris christie and john kasichsed obamacare but now decided to accept federal funding to expand medicaid in their states? are they making a mistake? >> i think each governor has to assess what is right for his or her respective state and i'm not going to second-guess them state by state. if i were governor of massachusetts, i would have to look at what our citizens needed, what was best for them. it may hurt them politically, i don't know but i think that those governors are doing what they think is right for the people of their state. that is what they were elect to do. >> more than 80 republican leaders, including some of your former top advisors and donors have now signed a legal brief calling for a constitutional right to marriage for same-sex couples when the issue comes up before the supreme court. has your position on that evolved at all? >> no. i believe that marriage is a relationship between a man and a woman and that is because i believe the ideal setting for raising a child is where there is a mother an

[applause] people like bob mcdonnell, scott walker, john kasich, suzanna martinez, chris christie, briane people we have to listen to and make sure their message is herd lout and clear across the country. martha: he said these are people we have to listen to. unfortunately you were not invited to the conference, governor. what do you think about that? >> that's fine. i spoken in the past a couple years. last year i spoke in washington and chicago at cpac. al cardenas is good friend. i spoke to the prayer brake fast on cpac on friday. and our candidate for governor, ken cuccinelli was the lead speaker. one governor is probably enough. no, look it's fine. i think bigger point we need to find a way to do, take the good, solid, conservative message, fiscal and conservative, demonstrate to people why it works. show that governors using those principles are actually getting results. i call it results oriented conservatism. that's what we do. balanced budgets, low taxes, limited regulation. job creation, pension reform, education reform. this is working and it's getting results for people and t

that includes florida governor rick scott, ohio governor john kasich, arizona governor jan brewer. to have it both ways? >> of course they are trying to have it both ways. they are politician. nothing wrong going on with the obama care bill. tough tweak legislation. legislations are not perfect. you take a little of this, a little of that. you massage things. things sort of play itself out. i think we will have a more perfect bill. sort of like our constitution, wasn't a perfect document, we have added things to make it better. this is what is happening with obama care, make it better. you will have some time to perfect this thing. do you see governors playing politics because, of course, they want to do medicaid, worried about the voters, don't want to do exchanges it is not funded yet f it is funded, i think this is an opportunity for the private sector to step in and play a role in these front-end exchanges where ultimately it is going to happen. i predict that the health care situation will be much like our 401(k) system ultimately and people will have to take more responsibili

several republicans and of course john kasich, the governor of pennsylvania. so in terms of 2016, this is the first open election on both sides and in 2008 i expect we'll have a lurch bill of candidate that she is going to be a very phenomenal candidate. there's a lot going where she beat jeb bush and marco rubio by double digits. she thought it would be a strong candidate. joe biden is strong candidate and we have an enormous number of good governors. martin of mali, governor cuomo of colorado. so i'm excited. >> are never going to complain. >> part of barack obama's appeal was young and vibrant. [inaudible] [laughter] >> in presidential politics -- as the country moves to a next generation of readership, they rarely if ever reach back and bring in an older generation. to a certain extent that was a factor for senator mccain in running against president obama in part the effect of governor romney right now and that is an interesting dynamic answers out of the two most likely nominees are going to be on the democratic side. there's a lot of pressure leadership

states we're going to have to win to be able to get back people like bob mcdonald, scott walker, john kasi kasiche people we've got to listen to and make sure their message is heard loud and clear across the country. [ applause ] now, we can also learn from the examples of principle and passion and leadership that we've seen during these last few weeks here in washington, d.c. by our republican leaders. i may be a little biased, but i applaud the clear and convincing voice of my friend paul ryan. [ cheers and applause ] now, if i were to offer advice to any person who was or became the president of the united states, it would be this. do whatever you can to keep america strong, to keep america prosperous and free and the most powerful nation on earth. it's no secret that the last century was an american century. and it's no secret that over this span of the coming century that is not written in the stars. america's preeminent position is not guaranteed. and the consequence if america were to become surpassed by another nation would be devastating. why do i say that? it's because the other leading

nine republican governors rick scott from florida jan brewer from arizona, john kasich from ohio conservativeovernors have signed on to this expansion of medicaid. it makes sense for their states because the federal government, not only are more people covered but the federal government pays 100% of the cost for the first three years. >> obamacare, however you want to look at it, the reform of the healthcare is the law of the land. it saw its day in court. the supreme court ruled it constitutional. you mentioned all of the governors. it is over. it is done with. deal with it. >> bill: the fact that paul ryan still makes it the centerpiece of his budget shows how totally out of touch and how unrealistic the house republicans are and why you cannot follow them on anything because their budget is a huge, big, fat lie. the one that paul ryan will unveil today. it is a lie because he the repeal of obamacare is never gonna happen. think about, it right. for obamacare to be overturned would take not just a vote of house republicans sure. they can line them up to do that. they did it 33 times in the

rick scott of florida and john kasich, so they have problems.n terms of 2016, this is going to be the first open election on both sides since 2008. i expect we will have a large field of candidates. there's no question that if hillary tosses herself into the ring, she will be a phenomenal candidate. there is a poll out today that she beats both jeb bush and marco rubio by double digits. joe biden will be a strong candidate. we have an enormous number of good governors across the country, martin o'malley, governor cuomo, so i am looking forward to it. >> do you think voters in an aging society -- part of obama's appeal was young and vibrant. does it matter? [indiscernible] >> i think presidential politics is very generational. when the country moves to a next generation of leadership, they very rarely reach back and bring in an older generation. to a certain extent that was a factor for senator mccain in running against obama and partly a factor in romney running against obama, and that is an interesting dynamic for the two most likely nominees w

doesn't john kasich do this in ohio?t the house of florida stopped him. >> the governor of florida decided he was going to take the medicaid money but the speaker of the house, who we will try to get on the show because it's an absolutely fascinating, to get him and the president of the senate to come up on the show to talk about it. they decided to actually veto it. >> why? >> because they believe the federal government will pay for it the first couple of years but after that, the cost is dumped on the states. you talk to any governor, democratic or republican alike, they tell you that medicaid is their biggest long-term -- so they are concerned about what happens in -- >> arizona, florida, new jersey. >> look. this is a good illustration of a law that was written the right way, right? the big story the last couple of weeks has been sequestration. it's failed and supposed to be written in a way that guaranteed a compromise. the idea behind obama care when it kamed to medicaid it would write a law so attract and they cou

also john kasich, the governor of pennsylvania. in terms of 2016, this is going to be the first open election on 8.th sides since 200 if hillary tosses her gloves, she will be a very phenomenal candidate. there is a poll in florida today where she beat both marco rubio and jeb bush by double-digit treats. we have an enormous number of good governors across the country martin o'malley, cuomo. i'm looking for. what do you think voters in an aging society -- part of barack obama's appeal was young and vibrant. as a matter? you have a cougar woman voted for obama. country moves to a net generation of leadership, bringarely reach back and in an older nominee. that was a factor for senator mccain running against president obama and partly a factor in governor romney running. .hat is an interesting dynamic at our potential field, there is a lot of young, fresh faces in the republican party. i think it would be very healthy. if you look at marco rubio, paul ryan, kelly ayotte, bobby jindal. very clear generational shift going on in the rep

so people like bob mcdonnell, scott walker, john kasich, susana martinez, chris christie, brian sandovalgot to listen to and make sure their message is heard loud and clear across the country. [applause] now we can also learn from the examples of principle and passion and leadership we've seen during these last few weeks here in washington, d.c. by a republican leaders. i may be a little biased, but i applaud the clear and convincing voice of my friend paul ryan. [cheers and applause] now, if i were to offer advice to any person who was or became the president of the united states, it would be this. do whatever you can to keep america strong, to keep america prosperous and free and the most powerful nation on earth. it's no secret that the last century was an american century, and it's a secret that over the span of the coming century, that is not written in the stars. america's preeminent position is not guaranteed, and the consequence, if america were to become surpassed by another nation, would be devastating. why do i say that? is because the other leading contenders for world leader