john lipsky joining me now, johns hopkins university, former debbie managing director of the imf andc research. what is jay powell's message going to have to be in light of the fed performance the last couple years? john: the economy itself has performed in ways that were unexpected, not just to the fed, but market participants and scholars in general. so, there has to be a recognition that they need to look more closely at how the economy is going to be performing, and reacting more rapidly to signals they see. the problem was that they waited too long, they have acknowledged that, and now they have to enforce credibility or at least gain credibility they may have lost with market participants, with the sluggishness of their reaction last year. kathleen: move faster, does that mean continuing 75 basis point rate hikes? does that mean that they have to open the door that their terminal rate a be higher than 4%? john: all of the above. they have to show that they will be watching the data closely, making sure what they think -- making clear what they think is important and making clea

joining us now is john lipsky, the chair of the national bureau of economic research, who was also the former acting managing director of the imf. it's good to see you again, john welcome back >> thanks, sara. nice to be here. >> i wanted to start with china because even though we knew that china's been in lockdown mode and the economy's been weakening i think the news still came as a surprise and we're seeing the reaction in commodities markets and investors who typically cheer rate cuts and stimulus from central banks actually sold off on that news because it was a sign of trouble. so what's happening with the chinese economy? >> well, that's going to be a very, very good and important question in the coming months. but it seems clear that first of all the zero covid policy which has produced lockdowns and added to uncertainty about the outlook have had a near-term impact. but at the same time as you're probably aware there have been troubles in the very important property sector in china in which there are estimates as high as 65 million units, housing units that are unoccupied that