and talking about john mccormack, informs the fall of 1997 that i went from boston university to look at his papers and i was stunned by the fact that -- i remember this vividly. it was literally brown paper shopping bags with just all kinds of letters and television interviews stuffed willy-nilly into these brown paper bags and the fact that the man had been speaker of the house, the fact that he had been a representative -- a u.s. representative for more than 40 years that they were still -- left congress in 1969, almost 30 years before and to compare that to much better experiences, the dodd center at the university of connecticut, looking at papers of senator thomas dodd, prescott bush, looking at eddie bolan's papers and tip o'neill's, do you know what criteria or anything you follow trying to decide whether you want to put your papers and in terms of how they'll be cataloged, organized and treated and all the rest? >> well, in my particular case it -- it did not have a huge amount of thought, it was very pragmatic, there was a gentleman who was a state senator in massachusetts w