and john mica, a florida republican who serves on the house oversight committee. congressman mica, let's start with you and the e-mails. do you and other republicans believe they were intentionally destroyed? is there solid evidence to that effect? >> we honestly don't know, and that's the reason we called in the commissioner, called him back, when he testified in march to government reforment oversight, he never cited any technical problems, and everyone, republican and democrat, said we just want the e-mails from lois lerner. they haven't been produced. i think everyone was equally shocked in congress and across the country that that information was either destroyed or missing. we don't know how it occurred. >> brown: congressman levin, were you shocked? because you said it was an equipment failure. what about the questions about the timing and when we learned about it and why there were no backups. >> i'm not sure what the issue is regarding backups, what the i.r.s. had at the time. i think it's clear there has to be a better job in i.r.s. and throughout this g

mica. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i have known the commissioner for many years. and i know him to be a good public servant. i'm a little bit baffled. i note, john, i think that you're probably in a position of the guy at the end of the parade with a broom and shovel here. and in a very difficult situati situation. let me, if i can, take people back to the history of this. as for you commissioner, this targeting began somewhere in march or april of 2010. in june of 2010, chairman issa alerted irs, and it made an inquiry. in february of 2011, lois lerner sent an e-mail to irs employees stating that the tea party is a very dangerous matter. matter. then the chairman of the committee with jurisdiction in june of 2011, june 3rd, dave camp, who you have spent time with recently, sent a letter to the irs saying that the heat really started to come on at that point. now, the entire administration and one of the biggest scandals in government was back during water gate when 18 minutes of tape was lost and somehow between june 3rd and june 13th, lois lerner's hard drive crashes and is on in ten days. it's not just a couple of days or 18 minutes like rose