and john milton cooper in my -- has sort of replaced in many ways arthur link who used to do all these multiple binds of woodrow wilson at princeton. john milton cooper is a professor of history at university of wisconsin madison. he is superb. his book "the warrior and the priest" comparing theodore roosevelt and woodrow wilson is a classic, and this is the best single volume biography of woodrow wilson, so great choices. >> have either one you ever won a pulitzer? >> no. >> you ever tried? >> well, you don't try. beginners luck, i was actually one of three finalists for the dewey book. but again, that was -- my god that was 27 years ago and no one suggested it since. >> well, we started out with doug brinkley talking about elvis presley and i know some of your interest so i'm going to -- the drama winner this year of the pulitzer, which has nothing to do with history, but it was something called "next to normal" by -- music by tom kitt and lyrics by brian yorkey. >> extraordinary show, in fact i'm seeing it tomorrow night for the second time in new york. it is -- it reinvents the bro