what did the company do wrong. >> everybody hears about john poddesta or swron brennan and say if they can get poddesta and brennan and the u.s. government and the pentagon, they can get me. >> well, that's true, charlie. it's just true. right now offense jowt strips defense in a sophisticated nation state where criminal groups can get into an internet connected system if they want to. it may take persistence but they can get in. your information is numently not going to be safe on an internet connected system if you are relying on some tool or something you can buy to keep someone from getk inside. that doesn't mean that we don't want to raise the costs so that only the most sophisticated actors can do it you want to keep the low level guys out, according to one study, about 08% of the breaches we're seeing, if people used known patches they could have prevented. so we're trying to increase customer safety that way. but at the same time, you got to make some fundamental decisions right now. which is should it be on an internet connected system at all. and if it is, assuming someone ca

there is an amusing email exchange there where-- asking john poddesta why she would say she say md rate and poddesta reports he asked her and she saidz she didn't remember and he writes back saying i'm not sure i believe her. so if it was difficult for the public to understand whether she was a pod rate or progressive, there was that shall-- this was echoed a little bit in those emails am but they track with basically what has been sort of public view. of hillary clen ton. and so i don't think-- i think we get to see it in a much realer way of something that feels very, in her speeches, the excerpts of her speeches to wall street. she is more conservative than the person who ran in the democratic primary. everybody kind of knew that. and so we. >> especially dernie sanders. >> yeah, yeah. and we see kind of what has been the kind of conception of her. but it's just very much in black and white. >> rose: so quickly, to katty and then john heilemann, so what's going to happen, assuming the election turns out the way it is now, what happens to donald trump? >> we've had the reports that he

and actually, the one i like was john poddesta saying that who is her campaign chairman, saying that hillary clinton has bad instincts. she's got bad instincts. i don't want somebody with bad instincts as our president. i'll tell you, if i were hillary i would fire that guy. he's said so many bad things. host: how big of an impact is this having on at least donald trump's attacks on hillary clinton? guest: we started to see him grab ahold of the revelations in some of the specific e-mails. but there's some strategists are concerned that he really missed his opportunity with a lot of the content of the e-mails to grab ahold of some of the earlier ones that came out of wall street that had clear defined talking points that were easy to understand. he took a lot of really started honing in on single e-mails. he would mention them but not really drill down on them. host: and some of the e-mails did have some things he could have taken ahold of. for example, the claim that pay to play during her tenure at the state department again rt in ca said that one email january 2015 detailed how mo