. >> i wanted to add one thing that bill remembers, congressman john pratt from south carolina, for whom i worked for four years, wonderful gentleman, no longer in the congress, wish he were, he used to say if you want to erode public respect for government, the easiest way to do it is to build up a substantial public debt. because one of the complaints you hear from people is i pay all this money in taxes and i don't get anything back for it. and you get the national defense, you get your highways, you get food inspection, you get lots of things that people don't think about. but to the extent that people are paying taxes, for the purpose of paying interest on the debt, they're exactly right. they aren't getting anything back for that. i always used to say that the one thing you get for the taxes you pay to pay interest on the debt is you prevent the acme collection company from backing the truck up to the white house and repossessing the furniture. that's all you get. you don't get any highways. you don't any food inspection. you don't get any national -- >> mm-hmm. >> you also lose, i