i want to bring and john stumpf us. -- and often i'm he his of least concern to him. what is your biggest concern? guest: my biggest concern is that bonds are not acting like bonds. last year's story on bonds, the returns were from price, not yield. traditionally, we know bonds are supposed to be a source of income. right now, they are it that on the direction of monetary policy in the they are a bed on the direction that the market thinks interest rates will go. -- bet on the direction. they have to sell the bond to get the return when the yields are low single digits or negative. >> when does that turnaround? his call on the long front has been right, right right. >> a remarkable guy. i was weaned on gary shilling. >> clearly not enough. >> we are going to get normalization of interest rates. that normalization will not take us back to a wild to a 3% on the tenure -- to a while 283% on the 10 year. -- to a 3% on the 10 year. the income crowd and the players could the players are just playing it. they have been playing