. >> we discovered that johnny perkins, serving a life sentence for attempted murder and robbery, was a veteran of the group and an authority on rule 38. >> when i first came to prison, in '86, it was unheard of. you know, public masturbating, you know. i think maybe i was one of the first that really started. i have over 20 years experience in doing this. i guess because i don't know, i guess, the excitement, i guess. or just feeling some type of connection because i know that's a woman and i know she's seen me, you feel? >> it was clear from talking to him that he had been caught enough, locked up enough, to the point where he really had the system worked out. >> i still get up every morning, go around the whole institution where i can go, to see where the females is working. even if a female is working in a particular spot where i feel like i can masturbate in her presence and get away with it, because that's part of it, getting away. not going to lockup for it. >> though we had covered the sex and love addicts' group, interviewed both staff and inmates about rule 38 and had been e