. >> talk because this character is little known compared with someone like jolie the clown in chicago and mob figures. talk about his life before the people by the book to read about it gives them the rough outlines because this, too, has to do with family. there's a real psychological thing. >> that was more fascinating to me than counterfeiting aspect. the counterfeiting aspect and drew me in because it is a crime people don't know a lot about but it was his family situation that compelled me to pursue the narrative more than anything else. art williams grew up the sum of a paperhanger and actually did a little work for the outfit, too here and their stealing cars. >> haven't we all. who in chicago isn't touched by this? [laughter] and his dad was in and out of prison when he was a kid. he was a brilliant kid comedy skit to grades and education and schooling was sort of how he what preserve his own sense of self in the chaotic upbringing that he had been traveling around the country as his dad scam people, and his dad left the family when he was about 12 and this was about the time

where there was talk about where they were going to open some sort of a porn shop or whatever and jolieoes out to the site and realizes it's two blocks from a church and says its not going there and they had to get an alternate site and then nick especially west for not -- was torn off on one of the murders date planned for months and months was the killing of a civilian businessman who wasn't in the outfit, he paid street taxes and a plot to blow up his car on the tollway, and i won't get into what it took to do that, but it was a long series of tests and stealing the, barring the identical car to figure out how to get into it. they have a bomb in the car and a triggering device in a car parked near the ramp where they know leave it on and he just drives and to arrange and the car disintegrates. well, that morning their wife took the child to school so they had this situation where the wife and eight young boys get in the car first and even testify about that at the trial that is one of the few times that nick paused and almost broke down because i think that he could accept telling pe

[laughter] >> i get the feeling you are a little too easy on jpmorgan iraq jolie highlight some mistakes they made without really underlining the mistakes perhaps or maybe i am wrong but this is i'm trying to figure out. they sort of say insurers are not good enough because they don't have enough capital so they can blow up and they are not there when we need them but they get their cbo's insured by aig. well, we found out aig was no different. aig wasn't really there when the big devolve that happened that wasn't supposed to happen but happened. so what's the difference between what merrill lynch did or jpmorgan? >> jpmorgan joost a ing of it, not that much partly because they have