>> jon chapman and the organisation decided it was in mutual interest to part ways. i think one of the pieces here as well is for the company to move forwardi think this is importantand even if there is no evidence of wrongdoing or anything like that, and no evidence of impropriety, many individuals have chosen that it is time to part ways. i was not involved with the discussions with mr chapman. >> you have no evidence of any complicity by mr chapman to cover up the existence of the file that was belatedly discovered. >> i do not have that. >> can you tell us the employment status of daniel cloke? >> mr cloke left the company some time ago and i don't know what his employment is. he is not in the business. he was the director of human resources for a number of yearsnot that many, actually; i am not surebut left over a year ago. i can follow up that status with you. >> okay. referring just very quickly to the witnesses who came to us, again in respect of the file that you discovered this year, regarding les hinton, when did he first become aware of this collection of