something to think about. >> well, that's -- >> -- death squad -- yes -- but, jon lovett, what surprisese chris christie, but really most acutely pence, is his complete underestimation of the party that he had a role in creating. right? like, he was literally there in the white house when donald trump was president. and he saw how trump change changed that party into a group of people that thirst for confrontation, that make grievance -- this sort of animating movement of their lives. who is there when the white house and the republican party became a hotbed of nativism and isolationism. you know, the hawkish neocon of yore -- that's not the president mike pence was serving. it's almost like he has a rip then winkel syndrome, where he's emerging on the presidential stage, where the candidate stage, forgetting about what happened in the four years when he was vice president. i have a hard time understanding how a man cannot know what he did for such a long period of time. do you? >> no, especially, because the other thing mike pence and chris christie have in common is that they are the t