and in nashville, pulitzer prize-winning historian and our resident theologian, jon meacham. n, why don't we stick with these live pictures. and i'll start out with a question to you because obviously there's a lot of symbolism here, a lot of ritual. but it's not something that the vatican has done in over 600 years. this was a surprise when he announced that he would be resigning. what do we know at this point as to why? >> i think we take him at his word in the sense that he's 85 years old. he does not feel that he has the energy or the -- really the ability anymore to carry forward the work of the church. i think there's always vatican intrigue. that's a redundant phrase. and i think we'll continue to hear things about leaked papers and potential complicit in different things. but my own sense from talking to friends who -- friends who know friends is that this was, in fact, a surprise. it is what it appears to be. and he's -- you know, this is a man who -- i don't think this man has been forced to do anything in his whole life. you know, he's a very -- a formidable figure.

jon meacham, and suddenly that raises it to an entirely new level. the u.s.overnment can decide which american citizens it's going to kill without probable cause, that is frightening. and, of course, the next step is, the killings start taking place on american soil. >> sure. >> and we're not far from that. >> i think i said this yesterday. i think this is the ultimate manifestation of this blending of law enforcement and warfare that was thrust upon us by the attacks of september 11th, 10, 12 years ago. they're now so intertwined, it's almost impossible to pull them back apart. and one thing i think we have to be wary of is the history of executive power in the country bounces from one extreme to the other. we almost always overreact. so you don't want to get too much oversight and too complex about it because presidents know, there is a need to be able to strike. but i would love to hear what the debate on this was. >> and also, i want to get to a couple more stories before we go to break, but how history will look at this will be so interesting because it

pulitzer prize-winning journalist jon meacham's biography of thomas jefferson is ninth, and at numberten, larry alexander tells the story of an american and german pilot flying over germany in 1943 with "a higher call." for more on these bestsellers and more, go to ny times.com and click on arts.

>> pulitzer prize winning historian and author, jon meach meacham. >> it's dark down there. >> it is dark. >> shall we get right to the news? >> let's do it. >> there's a piece on rattner. >> sorkin, andrew sorkin. like aenaen -- an insider newsletter. >> none of us are quoted. >> i'm so tired of being an outsider, raging against the news. >> can we do news? >> yes, we can. >> msnbc news "morning joe." >> i ghosted this, man. >> let's move in. president obama will be joined by first responders at the white house this morning to deliver remarks on billions of dollars in automatic budget cuts set to kick in next friday. according to administration officials, the president will challenge republicans to make a quote simple choice between protecting working americans or protecting tax loopholes. but the very public display rather than personal outreach is the type of approach republicans say is hampering opportunities for compromise on capitol hill. a new article from "politico" today says a number of top gop srpts who could help pass the president's agenda are surprised they still haven'

pulitzer prize winning author jon meacham's story of thomas eversend, and then the story of an americanerman pilot flying over germany in 1943 with, a higher call. for more on these best sellers go to ny times.com and click on arts. >> if you want to convert people you have to first of all persuade them their soul is in dire danger. ... >> there is always more than one face to issue and more to appearances. there is an embodiment of the lesson. when it comes to humanity and appearances, it is 10 to be done in an influential way like a good teacher. we have the wisdom of looking at both sides of the question. it is part of the crossroads where human beings get confused. it is so confusing that this is not allowed in the house. this place is just too temperamental. and before you do anything in religion, before you warship in the of the deities, make sure that you know the moral issues. the issues can deliver straight in the delivery that is done away with outlying that makes you the center for the message. that is because they are a lesson. so when this was looked at among the other deit

biography's coming back, i noti notice, jon meacham's books, o'reilly's books, anything on biographyhat do you call it -- jumping the shark, now we're going to killing jesus. i don't think that's going to work. >> oh, no, it will work. it will sell. >> i think it's the same o'reilly book club. >> okay. shall we try and squeeze a little bit of news in here? >> i just want to talk about this yahoo! story. >> i love it. this is marissamayer. did you hear about this? she's told people who work at home to come back to work or to quit their jobs. it's the bottom line. insiders say that there are a lot of people who weren't productive who were working at home and that she's, you know, taking a look at the company. and i think that there's a lot of people criticizing her, saying, are you kidding me? a mom telling people that they can't work at home? having said that, how do you take a look at a company and restructure it? >> people say i'm going to work at home. depending on what they do and depending on their circumstances and their -- the way they run themselves, some people get a lot more